Best downtowns of Puget Sound cities/towns (besides the obvious) (Vancouver: homes, living in)

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by SciFiNerd1

I am concerned by some posts about Washington State having problems with homelessness, drugs, and the lack of primary care doctors and health professionals if you need specialized care.

I understand that there are homeless camps due to skyrocketing housing costs. Can someone elaborate on how drug problems and the poor access to healthcare happen to me? I am still deciding on a possible move to Washington State.

The reason I am asking about healthcare is because healthcare is somewhat important to me. I am big on regular preventative care. Due to a family history of diabetes and other health problems, I am always cautious about my health and I try my best to take care of my body.

We moved to WA from Texas (or more accurately moved BACK to Washington after a decade in Texas).

Bottom line is that Washington is a higher-cost state than Texas. Especially if you want to live in one of the more popular and beautiful parts of the state. There are plenty of small farming towns in Eastern Washington that are probably no different from small farming towns in West Texas. But those aren't the sorts of places that people are thinking of when they want to move to Washington.

So be prepared for a somewhat higher cost of living in Washington. Which is the same for everywhere else on the Pacific Coast. Oregon and California are no different and California is even worse.

That means you will need a HIGHER income to sustain the identical lifestyle in WA that you have in TX. That is simply the reality. Texas is cheap because there is endless cheap land so cities can sprawl endlessly in every direction. And there are very few geographical constraints on growth other than perhaps access to water. That is not the case on the west coast so things will be more expensive. So a lot of middle class people out here actually live more modest lives than their counterparts in Texas (smaller homes, older cars, etc.)

What you need to decide is whether it is worth it to you. For us the answer was pretty easy. But we didn't move back to the Pacific Northwest because it was going to be cheaper. Or even the same as Texas. We knew it would not be.

There are shortages of primary care physicians all over Texas as well. Especially in rural areas. That is nothing unique to Washington. And the homelessness issue? That is mostly concentrated in larger urban centers, and mostly in certain spots that are walking distances to liquor stores and services. We live in the suburbs and never see homeless unless we drive across the river to Portland or go into central Vancouver. For most people it is frankly nothing more than a distasteful part of the landscape that doesn't actually affect you unless you actually live in a central urban neighborhood next to homeless encampments. Honestly, you can pick any spot in Washington and google map the nearest liquor store or convenience/grocery that sells liquor and snack foods. If it is 2 or more miles away you are EXTREMELY unlikely to see homeless living in your neighborhood. And if it is more than 1 mile the odds go down considerably. That is a fact.

[mayfair]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

And the homelessness issue? That is mostly concentrated in larger urban centers, and mostly in certain spots that are walking distances to liquor stores and services. We live in the suburbs and never see homeless unless we drive across the river to Portland or go into central Vancouver. For most people it is frankly nothing more than a distasteful part of the landscape that doesn't actually affect you unless you actually live in a central urban neighborhood next to homeless encampments. Honestly, you can pick any spot in Washington and google map the nearest liquor store or convenience/grocery that sells liquor and snack foods. If it is 2 or more miles away you are EXTREMELY unlikely to see homeless living in your neighborhood. And if it is more than 1 mile the odds go down considerably. That is a fact.

That's a good point. Any walkable area near stores will have homeless. That's the sad truth. If it's walkable to retail, it's a desirable place to set up camp. This is also true around big box stores, especially with wooded areas nearby. Shoplifting is a big issue.

This doesn't mean the cities are uninhabitable. It just means you're going to have to deal with drugged out homeless people as part of the landscape in PNW urban and suburban retail centers.

There are plenty of exurban and suburban areas where you don't see homeless. But those areas aren't walkable to anything.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

It is not possible for people who are addicted to needle drugs and supporting that habit with criminal activity to stop doing that long enough to listen to a case manager or participate in self-help. They are not able to follow such programs voluntarily. The drugs they are on are stronger than they are. I don't think we will solve this problem until we design and implement a new strategy of involuntary commitment of these people, into programs that can dry them out and put them on a path where they might be able to recover long enough to think about a different future.

Until then, protect yourself and your own... Try to advocate for policies that might actually work. Right now, we're just giving them more stuff. Policy of acceptance and enabling from the top is not helping. Eventually, good people will HAVE to see and understand that. I hope.

As I'm sure you're aware, a first step would be to ramp up addiction treatment capacity to at least 50% of the need for it, from the 10-15%, or even less, that it is now. The reality is that, even if you want treatment, and don't have insurance, it is very difficult to get. Even if you get treated, the after-treatment services (including housing) are lacking - if just thrown back on the street, most will just go back to using drugs.

Yes, anybody who refuses treatment and continues to commit crimes should be locked up, but the problem is that we lack the jail, police, or court capacity to come close to handling that. There are no "magic" answers. The real problem is that neither progressives nor conservatives are willing to pay for real solutions.

We need a "carrot and stick" approach, in equal measures, with funding to match the problem. All-carrot or all-stick approaches are doomed to failure.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by MechAndy

Are you saying that I’m beyond rural ?
Until recently I’ve never considered that I was remote but I guess it fits being that I’m over 2 hours away from a large city.
Even going to Sequim is a fair drive away.

You're just not easy to get to and that's not likely to change!

Best downtown areas?
I kinda like mine .

Me too.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

As I'm sure you're aware, a first step would be to ramp up addiction treatment capacity to at least 50% of the need for it, from the 10-15%, or even less, that it is now.

Oh yeah - I'm very aware. It will require a complete re-thinking of how to deal with these issues.

We will have to do this eventually. The issue is NOT going to go away.

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

Yes, anybody who refuses treatment and continues to commit crimes should be locked up, but the problem is that we lack the jail, police, or court capacity to come close to handling that. There are no "magic" answers. The real problem is that neither progressives nor conservatives are willing to pay for real solutions.

We need a "carrot and stick" approach, in equal measures, with funding to match the problem. All-carrot or all-stick approaches are doomed to failure.

My solution which I have not really seen expressed anywhere is to create new combination facilities:

Drug rehab corrections institutions
Mental heath corrections institutions

If you commit any drug-related crime (crimes will using drugs, or crimes to support drug habits) then you automatically get sentenced to drug rehab corrections rather than normal jail/prison. Maybe 6 months or a year, whatever the appropriate sentence is. And then you have MANDATORY rehab. It is part of your sentence. So there are no issues whatsoever with consent. If you don't consent you get bounced to regular prison and get your sentence extended.

If you commit any crimes related to mental illness then you get sent to mandatory mental health corrections. It is also part of your sentence. You do not have a choice. If you can prove that you have no mental health problems then you just get transferred to regular prison.

This gets us away from the problem of voluntary consent for either drug or mental health treatment. It is a mandatory part of your sentence and gives you a shorter sentence. If you resist then you get bounced back to regular prison for your original longer sentence.

Of course this doesn't solve the problem of the mentally ill and substance abusers who commit no crimes. But then they really aren't the biggest part of the problem anyway, are they?

[CalWorth]

I'll only address health care here. I realize this is a nation-wide problem, but it's pretty bad in western Washington. I've mentioned before that, from the Olympic Peninsula I have had to travel more frequently to Seattle for medical care. I've been told by several practitioners within the Swedish health care system that the Seattle metro is also losing practitioners, through relocation, retirement, or leaving the profession altogether. It goes beyond normal attrition rate. This situation seemed to start ramping up around 2015-16 and then the pandemic accelerated it. Another personal example for me was that just today, my future appointment with a specialist was cancelled because they decided to retire. So, if you want to relocate here, be aware & prepare, as much as you possibly can.

[grega94]

Originally Posted by indigorunner

What are the best downtowns of the Puget Sound besides the obvious (Seattle, Bellevue, Tacoma, etc.)

I know Everett and Olympia have decent areas that are seeing a lot of development, are there any other areas that are worth going through?

In my own life, Kent, Auburn, and Ruston have seen the most improvements.

Auburn's downtown is probably urbanizing the fastest among the south king county downtowns, many mixed-use apartment buildings being built.

April 2022: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3074...8192?entry=ttu

Aug 2012: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3074...6656?entry=ttu

Oct 2021: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3064...8192?entry=ttu

Aug: 2012: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3064...6656?entry=ttu

Puyallup further down south along the railroad also has a sizable downtown but hasn't seen as much growth.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.1909...8192?entry=ttu

It also has a nice downtown park
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.1899...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.1888...8192?entry=ttu

[grega94]

But outside of the major downtowns, Redmonds is probably the one that has transformed the most

Apr 2023: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6749...8192?entry=ttu

Jul 2011: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6749...6656?entry=ttu

Apr 2023: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6749...8192?entry=ttu

Jul 2011: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6749...6656?entry=ttu

[Winter Coven]

Originally Posted by mayfair

One burb that can't seem to get a downtown is Lynnwood. It's forever in the plans. Lynnwood has many things but not a nice downtown.

Lynnwood has Alderwood and easy access to the freeways for quick egress back to civilization.