High Capacity Magazine Ban (schools, live in, cost)

[SusVelo]

Originally Posted by Arcos

I’m generally in favor of sensible gun control. While I think guns are fun, and I enjoy using them, I am convinced by the data that shows an incredibly high cost in terms of deaths, violence and sheer horror that repeatedly shows it’s face in the country.

Having said that, I am convinced by people who know more about high capacity magazines, that this law doesn’t seem to be useful as a deterrent (except it may allow LE to go after people who supplied said equipment to someone who then used it in a crime). Maybe that’s worth something?

Really, pro-gun groups and American public opinion have had a lock on this argument for decades. We’ve chosen guns over safety. That’s where we are today. There is no level of crime or mass murder of our children that will, apparently change this mindset. Other countries have seen the rise of these mass murder events, and passed good laws that largely put a stop to them. We will not do it. Glad I don’t have kids in school.

True enough, Sandy Hook was in 2012 and barely registers.

[rkcarguy]

I feel like every proposed gun and/or mag ban is just a big hairball spit in the face of the law abiding. This, as I watch woke policy and an absolutely gutless state justice system allow the homeless, junkies, and criminals to ruin our state. Did you know that not a single Washington State city made the "Safest cities in the US" ranks?
Not so long ago a week of our police report was 1-2 pages long and it would be half accidents or domestic disputes with no one arrested, the occasional DUI, a handful of retail thefts, and so on. Now it's approaching 20 pages long. Homeless theft and violence is rampant. Vehicles and houses prowled, pedestrians assaulted and robbed, arson, rape, child molestation, it goes on and on. Many even have guns that they've stolen and sometimes I see the same person being arrested more than once in the same day. 2 weeks ago a guy was arrested at lunch time for disorderly conduct and drugs and was out in time to burglarize several homes before being arrested AGAIN at 3:35pm. Just yesterday someone tried to kidnap a high school girl as she got off my step-daughters school bus. The man had the nerve to chase her into a store where a customer grabbed the guy but he broke free and then took off.
Washington, get your criminal trash and mentally ill back behind bars where they belong! Then we can talk about a "safer" environment with less guns. I'm not holding my breath. Right now, most gun owners agree we feel we need our weapons for our protection and defense more than ever.

[rkcarguy]

Originally Posted by Arcos

I’m generally in favor of sensible gun control. While I think guns are fun, and I enjoy using them, I am convinced by the data that shows an incredibly high cost in terms of deaths, violence and sheer horror that repeatedly shows it’s face in the country.

Having said that, I am convinced by people who know more about high capacity magazines, that this law doesn’t seem to be useful as a deterrent (except it may allow LE to go after people who supplied said equipment to someone who then used it in a crime). Maybe that’s worth something?

Really, pro-gun groups and American public opinion have had a lock on this argument for decades. We’ve chosen guns over safety. That’s where we are today. There is no level of crime or mass murder of our children that will, apparently change this mindset. Other countries have seen the rise of these mass murder events, and passed good laws that largely put a stop to them. We will not do it. Glad I don’t have kids in school.

Most guns used in crimes are either stolen or obtained illegally. They are stolen by the same people I see being arrested and released back onto the street mere hours later. There is already plenty of hoops a legal want-to-be gun owner has to jump through to obtain a gun. Even dumber yet, one can already have several guns, a concealed carry permit, all the background checks done, and STILL have to wait for the "waiting period" for a new purchase. Lastly, the recent murders in my city have all been with knives or strangulation. Maybe we've chosen kitchen knives over safety? Our bare hands over safety? I guess it's a no fly zone to actually hold people accountable for their actions?

[Arcos]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Most guns used in crimes are either stolen or obtained illegally. They are stolen by the same people I see being arrested and released back onto the street mere hours later. There is already plenty of hoops a legal want-to-be gun owner has to jump through to obtain a gun. Even dumber yet, one can already have several guns, a concealed carry permit, all the background checks done, and STILL have to wait for the "waiting period" for a new purchase. Lastly, the recent murders in my city have all been with knives or strangulation. Maybe we've chosen kitchen knives over safety? Our bare hands over safety? I guess it's a no fly zone to actually hold people accountable for their actions?

As I said, other nations have addressed the issue. We can’t or will not. No need to retread the same old arguments. It’s been done. We don’t want to do it. ‘What about that’ is just a way to avoid doing something.

Where I do see progress, however, is through $$. Since our leaders will not act, there are avenues to make it extremely costly to gun manufacturers for them to continue marketing unneeded guns and washing the US with them, leading to higher crime.

And yes, we need to undo some of the changes allowing for repeat offenders, while continuing to reform policing. Difficult task.

[Hawkesteel]

Originally Posted by Arcos

As I said, other nations have addressed the issue. We can’t or will not. No need to retread the same old arguments. It’s been done. We don’t want to do it. ‘What about that’ is just a way to avoid doing something.

Where I do see progress, however, is through $$. Since our leaders will not act, there are avenues to make it extremely costly to gun manufacturers for them to continue marketing unneeded guns and washing the US with them, leading to higher crime.

And yes, we need to undo some of the changes allowing for repeat offenders, while continuing to reform policing. Difficult task.

So you're suggesting making guns/ammo less affordable and perhaps even out of reach for the poor? How's that for equity?

[Arcos]

Originally Posted by Hawkesteel

So you're suggesting making guns/ammo less affordable and perhaps even out of reach for the poor? How's that for equity?

Oh no. I’m suggesting making gun manufacturers who are pushing the latest, coolest fads and just pimping, pumping, pumping guns into the country like they are shiny new cars, have to remember that they have a greater responsibility. The cheap guns will always be cheap. Gun rights is one thing. What we have in this country is the same mindset of profit with no regard to cost… we need to bring some of that cost back to manufacturers, as well as liability.
Make money, but don’t pretend that you aren’t adding to the problem.

[Hawkesteel]

Originally Posted by Arcos

Oh no. I’m suggesting making gun manufacturers who are pushing the latest, coolest fads and just pimping, pumping, pumping guns into the country like they are shiny new cars, have to remember that they have a greater responsibility. The cheap guns will always be cheap. Gun rights is one thing. What we have in this country is the same mindset of profit with no regard to cost… we need to bring some of that cost back to manufacturers, as well as liability.
Make money, but don’t pretend that you aren’t adding to the problem.

Wouldn't they just pass that on to the consumer? I mean that's exactly what happens in any other industry, why would this be any different?

[Arcos]

Originally Posted by Hawkesteel

Wouldn't they just pass that on to the consumer? I mean that's exactly what happens in any other industry, why would this be any different?

I’m talking high end. They can’t pass on any meaningful price increases at the baseline of the market. I doubt people without much in the way of means would suffer if the cost of a $1000+ gun goes to $1200+.

[drinkthekoolaid]

I live in NY so I can offer some "been there done that perspective".

Full disclaimer on my position I am very strongly "pro gun rights".


If you think this will make WA safer you're very wrong and here's why
The 10+ round mags aren't going anywhere. People will keep their legally purchased property. They're not going to surrender anything. They'll just hide them in their closet or whatever.

The 10+ round mags will only "not become visible" in public and at ranges, that doesn't mean people don't have them they just don't want to deal with an encounter with an increasingly hostile law enforcement.

Any criminal that wants to commit a crime doesn't care about the laws in the first place a new law won't stop them. The mags are still available on the local black market and legally in neighboring states with no purchase requirements they are incredibly easy to obtain for anyone who wants them. So, only law abiding citizens who follow laws and aren't a threat in the first place are the ones who will follow the law.

It will only impede or harm responsible gun owners from now being handicapped in self defense scenarios from taking advantage of "high capacity" magazines.

In fact I take issue with the term "high capacity". They are not. They are "standard capacity" and in wide circulation. They are the magazines the guns were designed to use. They are not some super deadly custom magazines. They are the same exact magazines that the police use for comparison. The 2a should be applied equally to all citizens and there should not be different tiers of who can or can't have what.

[drinkthekoolaid]

Originally Posted by Hawkesteel

So you're suggesting making guns/ammo less affordable and perhaps even out of reach for the poor? How's that for equity?

I think that's exactly what they are advocating for.


Sounds comparable to a poll tax, or requirements to own real estate to be eligible to vote, or s literacy test, or the dreaded voter id laws to (gasp) have to prove who you are to vote.



Rights are rights are rights. The apply equally to all citizens whether they like it or not.