High Capacity Magazine Ban (crimes, trendy, bill)

[PhoenixSomeday]

As much as I hate the sick fascination with guns (no one speaks as loudly for the other 26 amendments as they do for the 2nd, and yes, some of them do get significantly threatened), I understand that "it's a cultural thing" that would take decades to change because it'll require multiple generations. And I also understand that laws aren't going to do anything for the target audience and target situations. Where there's a will, there's a way. People that want them, will get them. They don't go through legal channels and processes. People that want to cause death and mayhem will get what they need, regardless. Psychos and gang bangers and other shady types don't exactly go into gun stores to get what they need. Banning it won't help if the aim is to reduce casualties in mass shootings.

[SusVelo]

Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday

As much as I hate the sick fascination with guns (no one speaks as loudly for the other 26 amendments as they do for the 2nd, and yes, some of them do get significantly threatened), I understand that "it's a cultural thing" that would take decades to change because it'll require multiple generations. And I also understand that laws aren't going to do anything for the target audience and target situations. Where there's a will, there's a way. People that want them, will get them. They don't go through legal channels and processes. People that want to cause death and mayhem will get what they need, regardless. Psychos and gang bangers and other shady types don't exactly go into gun stores to get what they need. Banning it won't help if the aim is to reduce casualties in mass shootings.

That’s certainly debatable.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...745-9133.12487

[Arcos]

Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday

As much as I hate the sick fascination with guns (no one speaks as loudly for the other 26 amendments as they do for the 2nd, and yes, some of them do get significantly threatened), I understand that "it's a cultural thing" that would take decades to change because it'll require multiple generations. And I also understand that laws aren't going to do anything for the target audience and target situations. Where there's a will, there's a way. People that want them, will get them. They don't go through legal channels and processes. People that want to cause death and mayhem will get what they need, regardless. Psychos and gang bangers and other shady types don't exactly go into gun stores to get what they need. Banning it won't help if the aim is to reduce casualties in mass shootings.

Couldn’t you extend this argument to any and every crime and thus argue that we shouldn’t have or enforce any laws?

I mean, why make it illegal to store barrels of sulfuric acid in a residential neighborhood? If some crazy hoarder wants to do it… they’ll find a way!

[Diana Holbrook]

I don't think it's "sick" to like guns, and to want big ones, fast ones, powerful ones, and high capacity ones. It's an enjoyable hobby to collect them and to go out and shoot them for fun or for hunting, and they provide home security.

It's no sicker than someone wanting a really fast car that goes far faster than the speed limit, or a fast boat, or a really powerful tractor. They're terrific examples of good engineering and people enjoy them as a hobby and something to be good at using. It's a very fine motor skill to shoot well and it helps develop steadiness and concentration and muscle control and muscle memory. It's as good as Yoga... really! People who are really into them want the best. Nothing wrong with that.

I think our history so far has been that making laws limiting what kind of guns or what capacity magazines people can own, does NOTHING to promote public safety. I doubt this will pass. For a liberal state, Washington has so far been restrained about excessive gun law. There are a lot of hunters and sport shooters and 2A proponents here. I think it will probably die. I hope so.

[Arcos]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

I don't think it's "sick" to like guns, and to want big ones, fast ones, powerful ones, and high capacity ones. It's an enjoyable hobby to collect them and to go out and shoot them for fun or for hunting, and they provide home security.

It's no sicker than someone wanting a really fast car that goes far faster than the speed limit, or a fast boat, or a really powerful tractor. They're terrific examples of good engineering and people enjoy them as a hobby and something to be good at using. It's a very fine motor skill to shoot well and it helps develop steadiness and concentration and muscle control and muscle memory. It's as good as Yoga... really! People who are really into them want the best. Nothing wrong with that.

I think our history so far has been that making laws limiting what kind of guns or what capacity magazines people can own, does NOTHING to promote public safety. I doubt this will pass. For a liberal state, Washington has so far been restrained about excessive gun law. There are a lot of hunters and sport shooters and 2A proponents here. I think it will probably die. I hope so.

I think guns are cool, and the slickest, fastest, best engineered ones are *very* cool.

I think the 2A protects gun owners and allows them to own many types of guns.

I think it’s also subject to laws and regs like every other regulation.

I also think that if we choose to have widespread gun ownership, we shouldn’t lie to ourselves and pretend it doesn’t lead to bad outcomes. The average person is great. But if you have widespread or easy access to guns, you will get below average people eventually getting their hands on them, and then they will use them for crimes and mayhem.

As a nation, we’ve chosen to ignore that. We find it very easy to delude ourselves.

Oh, and the positive effect of gun control on safety? Proven. But we won’t do it. Too much money involved. Gun ownership has skyrocketed over the last 80 years or so, it’s too much big business now to cut down. Gotta keep those share prices high.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by Arcos

I think guns are cool, and the slickest, fastest, best engineered ones are *very* cool.

I think the 2A protects gun owners and allows them to own many types of guns.

I think it’s also subject to laws and regs like every other regulation.

I also think that if we choose to have widespread gun ownership, we shouldn’t lie to ourselves and pretend it doesn’t lead to bad outcomes. The average person is great. But if you have widespread or easy access to guns, you will get below average people eventually getting their hands on them, and then they will use them for crimes and mayhem.

As a nation, we’ve chosen to ignore that. We find it very easy to delude ourselves.

Oh, and the positive effect of gun control on safety? Proven. But we won’t do it. Too much money involved. Gun ownership has skyrocketed over the last 80 years or so, it’s too much big business now to cut down. Gotta keep those share prices high.

I don't think much, if any, gun control efforts have been "proven" to work. Maybe some reasonable laws will evoke change, but even that is debatable. Clinton's "assault weapons" ban did basically nothing to decrease gun violence.

Plus, every time the democrats talk about gun control, all that does is spur gun sales.

For example, I just bought 20 more 30-round AR-15 magazines.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Snowman05

Guns don't murder people, people murder people.

Why have any gun laws at all then using that same worn out old line of thinking? Sell them along with candy at the local grocery store for kids or anyone who wants them. The sky is the limit! Gun laws = stupid. Who needs a license anyway when you buy and carry any weapon anytime, anywhere freely? Take 'em to school too. Why not? I mean, its a free country, right? They're perfectly harmless. People hurt people, never guns.

Using that same warn out logic, why not sell grenades, rocket launchers, bombs land mines, tanks, F-16s to every yahoo who wants to collect them and enjoy their engineering marvels? Stockpile all the weapons you want to, right? Be free, finally!

Take that same approach to the international level and any country should be able to make whatever nuclear weapons they want. Nukes don't kill people, people kill people. Why, of course! Isn't it obvious? North Korea, do as you please. We were wrong to ever limit your freedoms. Bombs don't kill people, after all. We were wrong to ever doubt you.

The same sorry logic applies to all forms of drugs. Why require doctors and pharmacies to use prescriptions when you can buy them illegally already on the street? So, just make all drugs legal. Drugs don't kill people after all, people kill people. Yes, that's right. Drugs got a bad rap. War on drugs = waste-of-time. They're all perfectly harmless and should be freely distributed to all at will.

Derek

[Arcos]

The question isn’t whether or not people think gun laws work. It’s whether they work. I could produce the studies that show they do… people who are opposed will not believe them or will choose not to.

[SusVelo]

Originally Posted by Arcos

The question isn’t whether or not people think gun laws work. It’s whether they work. I could produce the studies that show they do… people who are opposed will not believe them or will choose not to.

I linked one directly related to this bill and nobody addressed it for some reason.

[Nodpete]

Just another 'feel good' law for those opposed to guns. It won't have any effect.