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I've been reading a lot of posts today and decided to start this thread because of comments that I've read. By no means am I gay, nor Christian but I am curious where in the Bible does it say that being gay is wrong?
Also, if Christ died for our sins and being gay is a sin, then why couldn't have Christ died for gays' sins as well? We commit sins every day. Some worse than others. Why is it that a murderer who is truly sorry for his sin can be forgiven yet a gay person is constantly judged by Christians?
The only person who should judge is God, right? He is ultimately the one who decides whether we go to heaven or hell so why is it that at the "church level" gays are judged and "kicked out" of their religion?
I've been reading a lot of posts today and decided to start this thread because of comments that I've read. By no means am I gay, nor Christian but I am curious where in the Bible does it say that being gay is wrong?
Also, if Christ died for our sins and being gay is a sin, then why couldn't have Christ died for gays' sins as well? We commit sins every day. Some worse than others. Why is it that a murderer who is truly sorry for his sin can be forgiven yet a gay person is constantly judged by Christians?
The only person who should judge is God, right? He is ultimately the one who decides whether we go to heaven or hell so why is it that at the "church level" gays are judged and "kicked out" of their religion?
Well it says it many places. I could find you many references but I'm sure others will quote scripture here so I'll save myself some time and try and get a good sleep tonight.
I don't know of any Christians who knowingly go out and commit sin. Yes we all commit sins everyday but the difference is living a gay lifestyle is a choice to sin everyday IMO. Yes God is the only judge. Gays are "kicked out" of their religion because they are continually sinning. If they repent and try to forsake the sin then it's all good IMO.
Typically, I get annoyed when Christians quote scripture to prove their point and expect me to accept the Bible as incontrovertible fact. This time, however, I welcome scripture and will be looking forward to people's responses. Don't get me wrong, I respect the Bible and Christian faith, and all religions for that matter so I didn't mean any disrespect.
I guess our view of being gay is different. You say it's a lifestyle; I say it is not by choice just like child molesters can't help who they are either. (Let me apoligize in advance to any gays that are are offended I put you guys on the same level as child molesters! I was just trying to make a point that being gay is not a choice of lifestyle but rather innate! Sorry sorry! It was the only example I could think of right now!) Some have the will power to subdue their urges while others do not (and become priests ... okay, bad joke. Man, I'm striking out!).
I'm sure there are plenty of Christian husbands who cheat on their wives, Christian politicians who lie to gain political ground, Christian couples who divorce, Christian drivers who flick people off on the highway, Christian felons/convicts, Christian Starbuck customers who get short tempered at the barista, Christian siblings who fight over inheritances, Christian frauds who cheat people out of their money, Christian sinners. Granted, I see your point about the gay lifestyle, that they are commiting the same sin everyday, but humor me for a moment and let's say being gay is what they are born with and not a lifestyle choice. Would gays be accepted then?
I've been reading a lot of posts today and decided to start this thread because of comments that I've read. By no means am I gay, nor Christian but I am curious where in the Bible does it say that being gay is wrong?
Also, if Christ died for our sins and being gay is a sin, then why couldn't have Christ died for gays' sins as well? We commit sins every day. Some worse than others. Why is it that a murderer who is truly sorry for his sin can be forgiven yet a gay person is constantly judged by Christians?
The only person who should judge is God, right? He is ultimately the one who decides whether we go to heaven or hell so why is it that at the "church level" gays are judged and "kicked out" of their religion?
the most obvious part of the bible where it states that is leviticus 18:22. It reads something like "Man shall not lie down with another man. In the lord's eyes, it is an abomination". But the bible also has other decrees like "thou shalt not eat clams, they are unclean", which totally have not withstood the test of time. There are many such decrees in the bible. If you went to leviticus, i'm sure that you'd find more that make no sense by today's standards. My issue with the holy rollers is that they freely "pick and choose" which ones are sinful according to their dislikes and prejudices.
the most obvious part of the bible where it states that is leviticus 18:22. It reads something like "Man shall not lie down with another man. In the lord's eyes, it is an abomination". But the bible also has other decrees like "thou shalt not eat clams, they are unclean", which totally have not withstood the test of time. There are many such decrees in the bible. If you went to leviticus, i'm sure that you'd find more that make no sense by today's standards. My issue with the holy rollers is that they freely "pick and choose" which ones are sinful according to their dislikes and prejudices.
I'm sorry, I don't know if you meant it to be funny or not but I got a big hoot about not eating clams. At first I thought, "Okay, here comes the scriptures" and then I got to the "thou shalt not eat clams" part and lost it. It was just totally unexpected I guess!
Granted, I see your point about the gay lifestyle, that they are commiting the same sin everyday, but humor me for a moment and let's say being gay is what they are born with and not a lifestyle choice. Would gays be accepted then?
It may not be the best comparison but if you're born addicted to heroin should you continue in that lifestyle cause its innate?
I believe that we are all born with tendencies towards some type of sin (some more than others). And I believe one of God's tests in life is for us to overcome that.
Living a gay lifestyle is just that; a lifestyle. Being male, female, black or white, tall or short, are not "lifestyles" because we have no choice over such distinctions. But homosexuality is based upon what you DO, upon your actions, and what you participate in.
If a child molestor has no choice about what they are, but its immoral for them to act it out, then by the same arugument why should homosexual lifestyles have to be automatically tolerated, and even respected or revered just because it is believed that they have no choice?? That particular argument is also pretty weak because there are statistics of "former gays" who went straight and went on to lead heterosexual lives and even have families. And be satisfied. So were they never gay to begin with, or is homesexuality something that people can actually have control over?
Yes only God can judge. No Christian is sending anybody for hell for their actions. But opposition to homesexuality from Christians will always exist. They oppose it being introduced in our schools to be taught to our children as normal and healthy when it is not. They oppose our gov't endorsing it, and they oppose being forced to acknowledge people's lifestyles as legitimate, or being forced to hire them.
I'm sorry, I don't know if you meant it to be funny or not but I got a big hoot about not eating clams. At first I thought, "Okay, here comes the scriptures" and then I got to the "thou shalt not eat clams" part and lost it. It was just totally unexpected I guess!
Not eating shellfish (along with pork) was part of jewish dietary laws. I don't want to get incredibly theological here but there are laws that passed away as a result of Christ's atonement. The book of Acts deals with this, as well as the apostle Paul teaching in many of the epistles of the NT about it.
The law (contained in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deutaronomy) can very logically be split into ceremonial law (like animal sacrifices, priestly ordinances, dietary laws) which has been rendered fulfilled by Christ and no longer required. There is also the moral law, and civil law. Read on in Leviticus and read about having to repay your brother if you kill his goat, etc etc.
Christians are not picking and choosing which laws to abide by. There is a rational and logical division of the law. Just because dietary laws and ritual cleanliness laws are no longer requirements for the Christian who is no longer under the condemnation of the Law do not mean the world is free from the moral and civil law.
It may not be the best comparison but if you're born addicted to heroin should you continue in that lifestyle cause its innate?
I believe that we are all born with tendencies towards some type of sin (some more than others). And I believe one of God's tests in life is for us to overcome that.
Actually, my SIL is a heroin addict (well, a drug addict in general and addiction runs in the family) and time and time again she goes to church, asks for forgiveness, falls off the wagon and the cycle starts all over again. Yes, her addiction is innate and yes, she does continue her heroin-driven lifestyle. She can be forgiven, empathized even, yet gays are still shunned and outcasted by Christians. To me, that's such an "un-Christian" thing to do.
I've been reading a lot of posts today and decided to start this thread because of comments that I've read. By no means am I gay, nor Christian but I am curious where in the Bible does it say that being gay is wrong?
Also, if Christ died for our sins and being gay is a sin, then why couldn't have Christ died for gays' sins as well? We commit sins every day. Some worse than others. Why is it that a murderer who is truly sorry for his sin can be forgiven yet a gay person is constantly judged by Christians?
The only person who should judge is God, right? He is ultimately the one who decides whether we go to heaven or hell so why is it that at the "church level" gays are judged and "kicked out" of their religion?
I am only going to post where to find them. You can go here http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html to read or listen to them. If you would rather, I could post ALL of the verses, however it would take up quite a bit of space. I don't mind doing it, but I would put ALL of the verses together in context and not just one or two hilighted ones. PM me if you want me to paste them all on here.
Normally I recommend the King James (or New King James for easier reading) however, for the easiest reading you might choose the Amplified version so you get a better understanding. And before anyone gets in a tangent about the various versions of the Bible...they pretty much ALL say the SAME THING, just in different context and language. You can read side by side any of the most popular versions and notice that only the wording is slightly different...HOWEVER, the MEANING is ALL the same!
Please note that I copied and pasted some of the text as well.
The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:24-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.
As for the reason why a murderer can enter Heaven and not the homosexual...If the murderer REPENTS (turns away from his sin) and calls on Jesus he/she's sins will be buried in the deepest ocean! Even though the scripture says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (as well as other scripture), it pretty much is a given that one would turn away from his/her sins once becoming a Christian. This would mean reading the Bible and researching what God says about different types of sin.
I will go ahead and paste these verses just for thought:
Matthew 7:21-22
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?
Ephesians 4:21-23
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind
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