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If you give credit...fine. But my point is that christians try to claim it as their own (as we have seen in this thread), when they actually borrowed it.
It's not unlike me being able to realize and say that some of the foundations of Buddhist thought are derived from Hinduism, and that in Thailand Buddhists do respect and sometimes even worship Hindu shrines.
This must be American Capitalism talking, trying to copyright and patent every damn thing, never mind people have been at it from ancient times as their culture.
That Buddhist thoughts are derived from the Vedic texts may be news to you but not to Hindus or Buddhists, at least Indians. Eastern thought is not set up that way. Many of the important texts do not have any specific authors, or they are unknown. That is what truth is, it is not owned by anyone, and there are no copyrights. Truth spreads because it has value. The same spiritual truths are told and retold by different teachers in different religion, because they are TRUTHS, be it Advaita, Sufi, Gnosis, they all sing the same song.
As far as I'm concerned -- and I don't care what you think about this -- when you formally borrow a concept and don't give credit for it, that's stealing.
It is not a concept, it is a spiritual truth, that every human has access to. All you have to do is to know. If there is an author you want to credit , it is God, it is Atman, it is Brahman. Regardless of whether you agree or not truth simply stands.
Stolen? Humane values are inherent in us. They get expressed in all human thoughts, because they are inherent. They have no copyrights.
Stolen may be a strong word, although some religious traditions (namely Christianity) have been rather ham-fisted about adopting practices from competing faiths to attract converts. In the case of the Christians, this has proven a marvelous success.
Certainly, many principles common across religious traditions were devised independently, or at least in independent clusters among closely related faiths. But many other principles owe directly to theological forebears. For instance, Judaism borrows much from Canaanite and Babylonian traditions as well as Zoroastrianism. Recognizing these sorts of links can aid to greater understandings among believers and non-believers alike.
Stolen may be a strong word, although some religious traditions (namely Christianity) have been rather ham-fisted about adopting practices from competing faiths to attract converts. In the case of the Christians, this has proven a marvelous success.
Certainly, many principles common across religious traditions were devised independently, or at least in independent clusters among closely related faiths. But many other principles owe directly to theological forebears. For instance, Judaism borrows much from Canaanite and Babylonian traditions as well as Zoroastrianism. Recognizing these sorts of links can aid to greater understandings among believers and non-believers alike.
Yup. As someone who spent much of her adult life in the Episcopal Church, itself a descendant of the Church of England, it is obvious, sometimes humorously so, that many of its practices are pagan in nature. England was one of the farther reaches of the Roman Church, and so perhaps the English Church even before Henry VIII made himself head were not too picky about allowing local beliefs to mingle with Christianity. Maybe that's also why the EC is more accepting than some other Christian traditions of the validity of other religions.
It is not a concept, it is a spiritual truth, that every human has access to. All you have to do is to know. If there is an author you want to credit , it is God, it is Atman, it is Brahman. Regardless of whether you agree or not truth simply stands.
Except we Buddhists generally do not believe in god, at least not a creator god or an all omnipotent god.
Stolen may be a strong word, although some religious traditions (namely Christianity) have been rather ham-fisted about adopting practices from competing faiths to attract converts. In the case of the Christians, this has proven a marvelous success.
Certainly, many principles common across religious traditions were devised independently, or at least in independent clusters among closely related faiths. But many other principles owe directly to theological forebears. For instance, Judaism borrows much from Canaanite and Babylonian traditions as well as Zoroastrianism. Recognizing these sorts of links can aid to greater understandings among believers and non-believers alike.
Practice is different from spiritual principles to live by. one is about conduct and rituals which carry meaning only within a tradition, and are limited by them. such as baptism. humane values such as kindness and compassion , forgiveness, generosity are spiritual in nature and they connect all living beings. even plants respond to music. dogs exhibit tenderness to babies. trees communicate. love connects the world. it has no limits or boundaries.
Ok. Good principles have no borders,you will find them in all religions, thoughts, philosophies, times, nations.
My point is the golden rule is part of the Christian Biblical text and is often cited as a noble way to act. This is one of the ways religious texts can influence actions, values, which is one of religion's purpose. If one quotes it as his guiding principle, as Phetroi claims, it did not come from out there somewhere, it is indeed a Christian value, it is in their texts, as something Jesus said. Sure one can follow it as an atheist, as a Muslim, as None etc. But it is not cleansed of religion, and that is my only point.
If good principles are in all religions, thoughts, philosophies, times, nations, then they are external to religion, so you do not need a religion to influence something that is natural for us humans. Religion adopts the Golden rule because it is probably the most important moral rule we have, but the rule does not require a god.
Or how about just recognizing that 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,' or however you choose to phrase it, is simply a practical and universal concept that need not be borrowed or stolen from some other place. It's simply a common sense principle that should be instinctive to everyone. Yes, no, maybe?
If good principles are in all religions, thoughts, philosophies, times, nations, then they are external to religion, so you do not need a religion to influence something that is natural for us humans. Religion adopts the Golden rule because it is probably the most important moral rule we have, but the rule does not require a god.
If good principles are in all religions, thoughts, philosophies, times, nations, then they are external to religion, so you do not need a religion to influence something that is natural for us humans. Religion adopts the Golden rule because it is probably the most important moral rule we have, but the rule does not require a god.
Have you ever tried to train a particularly aggressive dog breed or feral animal, especially the less intelligent ones? The "instincts" are hardly spiritual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Or how about just recognizing that 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,' or however you choose to phrase it, is simply a practical and universal concept that need not be borrowed or stolen from some other place. It's simply a common sense principle that should be instinctive to everyone. Yes, no, maybe?
Aye, there's the rub! What is "instinctive" to our ANIMAL nature and what is specific to our Spirit? I suspect our truly ancient ancestors were more animal than Spirit, hence the external fear of God, punishment, appeasement, and reward motifs. I suspect that the meager Spirit identifiable in modern-day humans reflects a gradual spiritual evolution or as LearnMe would say (the slow maturing of humankind). The concept of God and the many religions certainly played some part in that along with the many other societal influences and experiences. Of course, in my view, the death and rebirth of Jesus's human Spirit made God's Holy Spirit part of the collective human consciousness influencing and fostering further spiritual evolution (regardless of any specific belief in Jesus). YMMV.
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