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In the Gospel of John Jesus said, "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever—"
The King James translate it as Comforter, but essentially Jesus told His disciples He would send someone similar to Himself. And it's through the Holy Spirit we are able to do the same works Jesus did.
Jesus is our redeemer/savior. The Holy Spirit is our comforter and guide. Not the same role.
The Holy Spirit is not "attached" to God. It IS God because it IS God's very essence and substance, i.e., His Spirit! Jesus is the human who brought God's essence to a HUMAN Spirit so we would have access to it permanently. Our Human Spirits only need "arms and legs, a head, and body" UNTIL we are "born again" as full Spirits upon our physical death. Spirits "born again" after death are called "Ghosts," which is why there is confusion about the terms. Our goal is to produce a Spirit that BECOMES as much like Jesus as possible.
That is why Jesus told us to love one another because God IS agape love. Everyone who loves knows God and His Holy Spirit "indwells" them. That is why we are to be "in Christ" (in the mind of Christ) as much as possible. When we die we ALL become Ghosts (Spirits) as Jesus did. His perfect Holy Ghost created a place for us all with God in Heaven. There is no supernatural nonsense about THREE "persons." God is Spirit and we will be "born again" Spirits with Him and Jesus as Jesus tried unsuccessfully to explain to Nicodemus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalAngel2009
Perhaps, “attached” was an incorrect description. This is from a message about the Holy Spirit:
“It is merely an energy of the soul of the Father, conveying His Love. The Spirit could have no existence without the Soul of the Father, and is entirely dependent upon the powers of that Soul for its existence, and only in the sense that it conveys God's Love, can it be called the Comforter.”
We are talking past each other because of the detailed and complex "precepts and doctirnes" of your "Divine Love" rubric. It is not some ineffable "energy" as you seem to present it. The love is "Divine" because it is God's very essence or Spirit (Holy Spirit). I suspect our language and semantics are too dissonant because of the detailed and complex belief structure you are wedded to. My knowledge of God is experiential and not the outgrowth of ANY structured or detailed belief system.
I culled the "spiritual fossil record" of such belief systems and found the one that matched the consciousness of God I encountered. It is the mind of Christ as He presented Himself in the narrative and on the Cross. My Synthesis of science and the spiritual record are the basis of my current beliefs. They are devoid of all magical, supernatural, or miraculous memes. My views are entirely consistent and compatible with a very "natural" Reality. I suspect that makes our views difficult to reconcile.
]Jesus is our redeemer/savior. The Holy Spirit is our comforter and guide. Not the same role[/b].
Jesus is our redeemer/savior and His "born again" human Spirit IS the Holy Spirit who is our Comforter and guide to the Truth God has "written in our hearts" with agape love!
Jesus is our redeemer/savior. The Holy Spirit is our comforter and guide. Not the same role.
Both Jesus and the Holy Spirit do similar things for us. One is in the area of teaching. Jesus taught the disciples the ways of the Kingdom. And while Jesus was on the earth, the disciples went everywhere He went. So He kept them. The Holy Spirit does the same for us. He teaches us and brings to our remembrance the things Jesus taught. He also expounds and goes deeper, causing us to understand the deeper things of God.
So yeah, from a Christian standpoint, a way to think about this is in terms of an earthly ministry, and the deeper spiritual ministry. Most Christians I would say, stay on Jesus' ministry and His sayings in the Gospels. We speak on the sermon on the mount and the Lord's prayer (or the model prayer). Those things were prior to Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. These teachings displayed God's love, but it wasn't yet an empowerment. And Jesus wasn't just teaching His disciples here, but the world as well. (For instance in the model prayer, we ask the Father to forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others. So the feeling is I have to forgive or else God won't forgive me) Once Jesus completed His mission, that opened up the door for God to give us everything in Him. (As we say the veil was torn in the temple from top to bottom) Now God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit Himself, dwells within all believers. So there is a fullness there compared to just seeing Jesus physically and hearing Him teach in parables. Arguably speaking, the letters Paul wrote and the rest of the apostles wrote go deeper than the sayings of Jesus, because Jesus taught the people, but the NT letters reveal the mystery of God in Jesus.
Now you are united to God. And just as much as Jesus was our Advocate, Helper, and Comforter while He was physically with us, the Spirit fills that same role. Jesus did it from the outside, the Spirit does it from the inside.
This is from my understanding of the Christian viewpoint of the Holy Spirit. From other cultures they may have something or someone that plays a similar task of indwelling a person. I know in Hinduism they speak of becoming one with Brahman. Yet Brahman is not a personal being as I understand (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Brahman is the overall force of all things.
I wouldn't equate the Holy Spirit from the Christian standpoint from a perspective of an impersonal force. Yet the Holy Spirit does empower us to do things, and move us. In Judges 14: 5-6 it states.....
Then Samson went down to Timnah with his father and mother and came to the vineyards of Timnah. Suddenly a young lion came roaring at him, and the Spirit of the LORD came powerfully upon him, and he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as one would tear a young goat. But he did not tell his father or mother what he had done.....
The Holy Spirit rushed upon Samson, allowing him to tear the young lion apart with his bare hands. This happened at other times as well. Later on when Samson allowed Delilah to deceive him and she cut his hair, the Spirit of Yahweh left him. As we read in Judges 16:20.....
Then she called out, “Samson, the Philistines are here!” When Samson awoke from his sleep, he thought, “I will escape as I did before and shake myself free.” But he did not know that the LORD had departed from him.....
Samson became like any other man without God's Spirit empowering him. So the Holy Spirit is a Person. He even speaks according to Acts 13:2............
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”.....
Yes, God's spirit is an impersonal force / power - Psalm 104:30
God's spirit is a neuter ' it ' - Numbers 11:17,25
Just as our spirit 'it' is a also a neuter ' it '- Ecclesiastes 12:7 B
We are talking past each other because of the detailed and complex "precepts and doctirnes" of your "Divine Love" rubric. It is not some ineffable "energy" as you seem to present it. The love is "Divine" because it is God's very essence or Spirit (Holy Spirit). I suspect our language and semantics are too dissonant because of the detailed and complex belief structure you are wedded to. My knowledge of God is experiential and not the outgrowth of ANY structured or detailed belief system.
I culled the "spiritual fossil record" of such belief systems and found the one that matched the consciousness of God I encountered. It is the mind of Christ as He presented Himself in the narrative and on the Cross. My Synthesis of science and the spiritual record are the basis of my current beliefs. They are devoid of all magical, supernatural, or miraculous memes. My views are entirely consistent and compatible with a very "natural" Reality. I suspect that makes our views difficult to reconcile.
Well, God Divine Love you, Mystic! I truly believe that God's essence is Divine aka Holy and His essence is transported over time and space to our soul when it's open to receive it. Imho, this is very simple. The brilliant nature of our Father is not only by His illuminated self, but because He is truly a genius. I'm sure you feel this way that it's truly a blessing to know Him and love Him immensely... as I do.
Here's another interesting message that was written by our dearest Brother in Christ:
"... you will be enabled to fully understand what the Holy Ghost is, and what meaning should be given to it as you find it referred to in various parts of the Bible. I will say this though, that it is not God. It is merely one of his instrumentalities, used by Him in doing His work for the redemption of mankind.
Does anyone have anything to back up all the many claims made about the Holy Spirit and/or the Holy Ghost?
Yes and here's a public service reminder: the Bible is the claim, not the proof.
We would not even have a concept of a Holy Spirit apart from the Bible, because like a lot of other things asserted therein, the Holy Sprit is invisible, unexaminable, and even if we accept those assertions in the Bible for the sake of argument, they state that the Holy Spirit is subtle and easy to miss, even for believers.
Yes and here's a public service reminder: the Bible is the claim, not the proof.
We would not even have a concept of a Holy Spirit apart from the Bible, because like a lot of other things asserted therein, the Holy Sprit is invisible, unexaminable, and even if we accept those assertions in the Bible for the sake of argument, they state that the Holy Spirit is subtle and easy to miss, even for believers.
Yes and here's a public service reminder: the Bible is the claim, not the proof.
We would not even have a concept of a Holy Spirit apart from the Bible, because like a lot of other things asserted therein, the Holy Sprit is invisible, unexaminable, and even if we accept those assertions in the Bible for the sake of argument, they state that the Holy Spirit is subtle and easy to miss, even for believers.
Why?
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