Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My main frustration with this "spiritual" approach...
Is that the religions themselves don't do that. All you have to do to realize that is to read their various holy books.
If all religion and God consisted of is what CB is advocating... "knowing yourself and knowing God"... that is a lot more palatable. But that ignores so much of what religions entail.
Meanwhile, many religionists have been and are unwilling to accept science simply because of what their holy books say... and these days it is also because of the political orientation of their particular religious persuasions and religious leaders.
To me it seems like you "spiritual" people should reject religions... but instead you embrace them and just ignore all the dubious aspects of them.
"Religious" scientists do the same thing.
The problem is that religions coopted belief in God for control purposes. The religions shifted the focus from developing SELF-CONTROL through "Knowing yourself and God" to OBEYING what God wants from ALL of us . . . OR ELSE . . . to coerce others for societal reasons. It is a human thing, NOT God's thing!!! God is all about our self-control.
My main frustration with this "spiritual" approach...
Is that the religions themselves don't do that. All you have to do to realize that is to read their various holy books.
If all religion and God consisted of is what CB is advocating... "knowing yourself and knowing God"... that is a lot more palatable. But that ignores so much of what religions entail.
Meanwhile, many religionists have been and are unwilling to accept science simply because of what their holy books say... and these days it is also because of the political orientation of their particular religious persuasions and religious leaders.
To me it seems like you "spiritual" people should reject religions... but instead you embrace them and just ignore all the dubious aspects of them.
"Religious" scientists do the same thing.
Spirituality is also about how one approaches life. That means avoiding judgement, maintain acceptance, avoid victimhood and eschew vengeance, maintaining neutrality, and letting the world turn as it does. If one were to act, it is with compassion, empathy and love. Those are the ideals to reach, not because God said, )He does not talk,)it is because this leads to inner happiness, peace, and happiness. A constant mode of conflict with the world creates stress and anxiety and is needless. This is not faith, it can be proven in one’s own life.
The problem is that religions coopted belief in God for control purposes. The religions shifted the focus from developing SELF-CONTROL through "Knowing yourself and God" to OBEYING what God wants from ALL of us . . . OR ELSE . . . to coerce others for societal reasons. It is a human thing, NOT God's thing!!! God is all about our self-control.
bold above
most religions do teach that.
most religions do focus on developing self-control.
Faith in astrology alone does not make it a religion. What matters, i think, is what religion teaches us that we don’t know.
The kingdom of God is within you is not something we know until it is taught and meditated upon so it be becomes our truth. With that truth established, why do we not experience God as within? THis is the path of self-inquiry. Just us any other discipline this inquiry needs one to qualify ourselves with a simplified life, lived with mindfulness, learn, and meditate on what is taught, question and clarify, until one has no doubt that we are spirit, not body and mind, and what hides it from us. At first it requires faith in the teaching, but that is not where it ends. It needs to be understood and that requires engaging it with intellect.
Spirituality is also about how one approaches life. That means avoiding judgement, maintain acceptance, avoid victimhood and eschew vengeance, maintaining neutrality, and letting the world turn as it does. If one were to act, it is with compassion, empathy and love. Those are the ideals to reach, not because God said, )He does not talk,)it is because this leads to inner happiness, peace, and happiness. A constant mode of conflict with the world creates stress and anxiety and is needless. This is not faith, it can be proven in one’s own life.
You can strive to do all that stuff you mentioned in the first three sentences without calling it 'spirituality'. Those are worthy humanistic objectives that need not be predicated on any extraneous mythical belief. Employing the word 'spirituality' mostly just muddles the picture, because no two people define the word identically. And there's also the minor issue that there's zero evidence for the existence of a spiritual realm in (or outside of, whatever that would actually mean) this universe/multiverse.
Given my response here, I think it's obvious that I don't quite buy into 'avoiding judgment', but I do endorse 'sparing well-meaning people the brunt of harsh judgment'. We certainly should at least attempt to empathize. Some degree of judgment is an unavoidable byproduct of both emotion and critical thought, but not all forms of judgment are created equal. Strive for 'gracious judgment' that doesn't fall victim to excessive egotism...something like that.
The problem is that religions coopted belief in God for control purposes. The religions shifted the focus from developing SELF-CONTROL through "Knowing yourself and God" to OBEYING what God wants from ALL of us . . . OR ELSE . . . to coerce others for societal reasons. It is a human thing, NOT God's thing!!! God is all about our self-control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
bold above
most religions do teach that.
most religions do focus on developing self-control.
Ostensibly, but ANY coercive attempts (shunning, ostracizing, disciplining, etc.) of others are counterproductive and the point is lost completely by emphasizing the "OR ELSE" Hell threat, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Being told that if you sin you go to hell is NOT developing SELF-control.
That's some broad generalization for all Christian denominations.
Why should I be the only one here on this forum that doesn't make broad generalizations? Nevertheless, when fear of punishment is the tool used...that is not self-control.
You can strive to do all that stuff you mentioned in the first three sentences without calling it 'spirituality'. Those are worthy humanistic objectives that need not be predicated on any extraneous mythical belief. Employing the word 'spirituality' mostly just muddles the picture, because no two people define the word identically. And there's also the minor issue that there's zero evidence for the existence of a spiritual realm in (or outside of, whatever that would actually mean) this universe/multiverse.
Given my response here, I think it's obvious that I don't quite buy into 'avoiding judgment', but I do endorse 'sparing well-meaning people the brunt of harsh judgment'. We certainly should at least attempt to empathize. Some degree of judgment is an unavoidable byproduct of both emotion and critical thought, but not all forms of judgment are created equal. Strive for 'gracious judgment' that doesn't fall victim to excessive egotism...something like that.
This is philosophy, not religion/spirituality.
Of course you can develop all that stuff. Developing all that is not to please a god that is external, but those are intrinsic to the spirit within is what needs to be learnt. If spirituality muddles the picture, Religion and God as the creator God completely buries it! Spirituality is more accurate, closer to the sense of Self-inquiry, the Existence, than what Religion seems to communicate to some people - Christianity, Bible, Biblical History. It would be a pity to end there because there is so much richness, wealth of knowledge to be mined.
That philosophy is separate from religion is your opinion, and I respect that. In my way of thinking the two were never separate.
What religion offers spirituality is the texts, that contain the experiences of those who achieved liberation. The words only inadequately express their experience. So they needed to be studied carefully to unfold the full and complete meaning, test them, contemplate on them, and only when it sits well within, accept them as truth. To do that one needs to trust oneself too.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
