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Exactly right. The question that may lead to God is "What is the nature of ultimate reality?" It's not a matter of caring whether God exists but of reaching a well-informed conviction that God is the best answer to the question about the nature of ultimate reality. I'd have no problem with convictions that reality is a meaningless cesspool of woe and that life ceases at death if my quest had in fact led to such convictions. My mortality and the many hardships of life have nothing - truly nothing - to do with whether I care about God. If I were immortal and life were a utopia, I'd still be intensely interested in the questions "Why is there anything rather than nothing? What is the explanation for this? What is the source?"
The original post reflects a common misunderstanding that religious believers are motivated by some psychological need to find a cosmic security blanket. This may be true of some, perhaps many, but many nonbelievers are equally motivated by considerations unrelated to ultimate truth. For someone who is interested in getting as close as he or she can to ultimate truth and is willing to put forth the effort, "caring about God" flows from first reaching a conviction that God is the best answer to the question about the nature of ultimate reality.
Does Existence have a source, or does Existence just exist? Is Existence merely what philosophers call a brute fact? Does atheist philosopher Bertrand Russell's statement "I should say that the universe is just there, and that’s all" differ from what you are saying? Is Existence limited to the reality we perceive, or does it transcend the reality we perceive? What do you even mean by Existence and why does it have a capital E? I at least try to put as much meat on the bones of my answer to the question about the nature of ultimate reality as I can. Even Buddhist cosmology, which isn't persuasive to me, is far more complex than mere Existence.
As Paul Tillich stated, and others had stated before him, the fundamental question is, "Why is there ANYTHING? Why is there not NOTHING AT ALL?" It's the "Why?" that has been the focus of my quest. To say that the nature of ultimate reality is Existence strikes me as one of those statements that is difficult to disagree with because it's so vague and amorphous.
If a God existed who greatly rewards, protects and blesses and uplifts those whom obey the God - would not those receiving the gifts from the God need protection and power to defend themselves from others who refuse to obey and whom do not receive rewards, protection and blessings and upliftment
Human nature has always existed with a majority who refuse to adhere and comply with the guidelines - this majority has always attempted to destroy the process of those receiving the gifts from the God and to take these gifts from them
therefore would there not be an eternal need for such a God to provide protection, power to defense
and for the obedient receiving rewards, protection and blessings and upliftment to be very thankful, grateful and appreciative to the God. - like a never ending cycle of thankfulness, gratefulness and appreciation
Seems to me that many of the most faithful die the same horrible deaths that the least faithful experience.
Does Existence have a source, or does Existence just exist? Is Existence merely what philosophers call a brute fact? Does atheist philosopher Bertrand Russell's statement "I should say that the universe is just there, and that’s all" differ from what you are saying? Is Existence limited to the reality we perceive, or does it transcend the reality we perceive? What do you even mean by Existence and why does it have a capital E? I at least try to put as much meat on the bones of my answer to the question about the nature of ultimate reality as I can. Even Buddhist cosmology, which isn't persuasive to me, is far more complex than mere Existence.
As Paul Tillich stated, and others had stated before him, the fundamental question is, "Why is there ANYTHING? Why is there not NOTHING AT ALL?" It's the "Why?" that has been the focus of my quest. To say that the nature of ultimate reality is Existence strikes me as one of those statements that is difficult to disagree with because it's so vague and amorphous.
Ok then.
I cap. existence for the same reason you cap. god, not just because of grammar but because it also means something. Something important I guess.
The nature of existence is to exist, yes. Existence transcends time, space and states of being - awake, sleep, deep sleep when our mind recedes. It has no source other than itself. It has no origin and so no end. It is everywhere and in and the basis of everything, but everything is not Existence.
The meaning of human life is in understanding the nature of Existence and to know it exists within and enlivens not only all our faculties, but also our awareness of our faculties. Why? To know we are not our body, our mind or our intellect, which are all imperfect, limited, and terminal; not our emotions and feelings and desire which can all lead to a cycle of transient sadness and happiness. Instead we are pure and complete awareness, contentment, and endless. Knowing this to be true sets us free.
Some hoping for it today St. Ignatius of Antioch is remembered here's his final letter pleading no one to interfere.He was brought to Rome to be fed to the lions where he died.
I am writing to all the churches to let it be known that I will gladly die for God if only you do not stand in my way. I plead with you: show me no untimely kindness. Let me be food for the wild beasts, for they are my way to God. I am God’s wheat and shall be ground by their teeth so that I may become Christ’s pure bread. Pray to Christ for me that the animals will be the means of making me a sacrificial victim for God.
No earthly pleasures, no kingdoms of this world can benefit me in any way. I prefer death in Christ Jesus to power over the farthest limits of the earth. He who died in place of us is the one object of my quest. He who rose for our sakes is my one desire.
The time for my birth is close at hand. Forgive me, my brothers. Do not stand in the way of my birth to real life; do not wish me stillborn. My desire is to belong to God. Do not, then, hand me back to the world. Do not try to tempt me with material things. Let me attain pure light. Only on my arrival there can I be fully a human being. Give me the privilege of imitating the passion of my God. If you have him in your heart, you will understand what I wish. You will sympathise with me because you will know what urges me on.
The prince of this world is determined to lay hold of me and to undermine my will which is intent on God. Let none of you here help him; instead show yourselves on my side, which is also God’s side. Do not talk about Jesus Christ as long as you love this world. Do not harbour envious thoughts. And supposing I should see you, if then I should beg you to intervene on my behalf, do not believe what I say. Believe instead what I am now writing to you. For though I am alive as I write to you, still my real desire is to die. My love of this life has been crucified, and there is no yearning in me for any earthly thing. Rather within me is the living water which says deep inside me: “Come to the Father.†I no longer take pleasure in perishable food or in the delights of this world. I want only God’s bread, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, formed of the seed of David, and for drink I crave his blood, which is love that cannot perish.
I am no longer willing to live a merely human life, and you can bring about my wish if you will. Please, then, do me this favour, so that you in turn may meet with equal kindness. Put briefly, this is my request: believe what I am saying to you. Jesus Christ himself will make it clear to you that I am saying the truth. Only truth can come from that mouth by which the Father has truly spoken. Pray for me that I may obtain my desire. I have not written to you as a mere man would, but as one who knows the mind of God. If I am condemned to suffer, I will take it that you wish me well. If my case is postponed, I can only think that you wish me harm.
As Paul Tillich stated, and others had stated before him, the fundamental question is, "Why is there ANYTHING? Why is there not NOTHING AT ALL?" It's the "Why?" that has been the focus of my quest.
Then you have not engaged in a sincere and diligent quest. Let me help, and then the 'why' question will be answered, to be replaced by two other questions.
Think rationally about what absolute nothing is, and what absolutely nothing logically entails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
To say that the nature of ultimate reality is Existence strikes me as one of those statements that is difficult to disagree with because it's so vague and amorphous.
I have read little of Tillich, and only briefly, but I found his work was that of a man arguing for Pantheism while desperately trying not to. But I may be wrong about this, it is like I said, my study of Tillich was at a basic level.
Ok then.
I cap. existence for the same reason you cap. god, not just because of grammar but because it also means something. Something important I guess.
The nature of existence is to exist, yes. Existence transcends time, space and states of being - awake, sleep, deep sleep when our mind recedes. It has no source other than itself. It has no origin and so no end. It is everywhere and in and the basis of everything, but everything is not Existence.
The meaning of human life is in understanding the nature of Existence and to know it exists within and enlivens not only all our faculties, but also our awareness of our faculties. Why? To know we are not our body, our mind or our intellect, which are all imperfect, limited, and terminal; not our emotions and feelings and desire which can all lead to a cycle of transient sadness and happiness. Instead, we are pure and complete awareness, contentment, and endless. Knowing this to be true sets us free.
As we have repeatedly gone back and forth over the platitude expressed in the bold, I continue to wonder why you do not see the self-contradictory nature of it. Transcendence does not preclude nor does it exclude immanence, In fact, the centrality of existence precludes the (irrational to me) separation your platitude implies, IMO. Can you tell me exactly WHAT it IS (not names like ego, mind, etc.) ontologically that you believe needs to learn what it is NOT and WHY (while emanating FROM this "ultimate knowledge and awareness") it has this or any other deficit???
It simply could not work unless people did not reproduce. It reminds me of a old star trek episode where all the people were immortal there wasn't an inch left to stand on on the planet it was completely full of people and they kidnapped Kirk for a disease he had so they could all die again. In this reality one generation has to go to allow the next there just wouldn't be enough room. Being immortal in this reality would no long interest you because you need nothing.Wealth food medicine money would no longer be needed cold warm would not make a difference.This reality is not meant for immortals.The earth would eventually be eaten by the sun and the sun would die and you would be floating in space immortal you would just end up in a void eventually.
Last edited by GeorgeStanley; 10-18-2023 at 08:23 PM..
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