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I can but you should ask Miss. H who posted it first.
The concept that we are born sinners and need forgiveness is not accepted in any other system of belief other than Christianity. That can be damaging to some people. We are made in the image of god, we are lit with the spirit of Divinity itself, we cannot be sinners. So in many religion it is not forgiveness but compassion, restraint from doing harm or vengeance that is taught.
There is a cosmic order to the cosmos, everything happens per that order. What happens was meant to happen we may not always know the reason. All IS right with the world. It is our responsibility to do no harm - to ourselves, to others, to the environment, to the world.
Forgiveness is a central tenet of Christianity. It is not necessary for salvation, but it is something God insists we do. We say it every time we recite the Lord's Prayer. It is like the parable of the unforgiving debtor who's master forgives his massive debt, and then with complete ingratitude he tries to collect a tiny debt from his own servant rather than repeat in kind by forgiving his servant's miniscule debt. Like being forgiven a beam and then trying to collect a splinter.
It is just something we are expected to learn to do in the service of Christ.
Forgiveness is very much a cornerstone of Christianity.
What other religions treat forgiveness as a fundamental and necessary aspect of their faith? Must Jews forgive? Must Muslims forgive? Do Hindus or Buddhists?
I have never thought about it before, but it so important and central to Christianity, I am just wondering how widespread it is as a central tenet of faith among other religions?
It is not a central tenet of Daoism, it is a logical conclusion of it. But with Daoism, it is never that easy.
To forgive is to return to a position of balance, which is a good practice in the real world, but it is also an act of doing something, which goes against the principle of wu wei (non action, or action without effort). The ideal is to kill the idea of your own importance, so words and actions against you are not important, so there is nothing to forgive.
How do you figure that it's not necessary?
Matthew 6:15 states "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours."
I can but you should ask Miss. H who posted it first.
The concept that we are born sinners and need forgiveness is not accepted in any other system of belief other than Christianity. That can be damaging to some people. We are made in the image of god, we are lit with the spirit of Divinity itself, we cannot be sinners. So in many religion it is not forgiveness but compassion, restraint from doing harm or vengeance that is taught.
There is a cosmic order to the cosmos, everything happens per that order. What happens was meant to happen we may not always know the reason. All IS right with the world. It is our responsibility to do no harm - to ourselves, to others, to the environment, to the world.
I agree with the "born sinners" part. I don't believe that, either. Not all in Christianity believe we are born sinners. I don't even really use the word "sin", the word is too loaded, and ends up putting a spotlight on the wrong things. The focus ends up being wrong.
I also can understand what you mean by the term compassion instead of forgiveness, but I think there is a little bit of a clarification that is needed, maybe. In order to forgive, truly forgive, you must have compassion. Forgiving just to relieve yourself of anger/bitterness is not full forgiveness, or true forgiveness. True forgiveness is having compassion towards the one who harmed you and seeing the "image of God" within that person, and truly forgiving. For some cases, this can be an extraordinary feat that showcases the truth of "God IS love."
I guess where I have some confusion is in the "what happens was meant to happen.... all IS right with the world" sentiment. How was a child being sexually abused and then murdered "meant to happen" and how is that part of "all is right with the world"?
I don't think that was meant to happen at all. Eventually, I believe, those who harmed and those who were harmed will reconcile. But in the present moment, no, I do not think that it was meant to happen or that all IS right with the world. I believe all WILL BE right with the world, but in the present moment, all emotions including anger at injustice, are part of the learning process. I think a lot of things were not "meant" to happen, but they did happen because we humans choose to turn away from God (love) and walk down the wrong path (non-love, that which is not love, God is love, so that which is not Godly). When we do that, we can cause harm to others. That harm is real. It needs to be dealt with, and people healed. It's a process. I think there is a desire to skip that process. We can't. Remorse/compassion/forgiveness are all part of that process. A child being abused is not a neutral thing. It is a dark thing. That darkness needs to be accounted for and dealt with. (Again, it IS about remorse/compassion/forgiveness.) The process. We're here to learn by contrasts. What is God? LOVE. We have to learn just what love really is. The most powerful thing in the universe.
Perhaps, I am misunderstanding what you guys are saying about things were meant to happen and all IS right with the world. I don't know. These are just the thoughts that got generated after reading your posts.
Forgiveness is a central tenet of Christianity. It is not necessary for salvation, but it is something God insists we do. We say it every time we recite the Lord's Prayer. It is like the parable of the unforgiving debtor who's master forgives his massive debt, and then with complete ingratitude he tries to collect a tiny debt from his own servant rather than repeat in kind by forgiving his servant's miniscule debt. Like being forgiven a beam and then trying to collect a splinter.
It is just something we are expected to learn to do in the service of Christ.
Forgiveness is very much a cornerstone of Christianity.
What other religions treat forgiveness as a fundamental and necessary aspect of their faith? Must Jews forgive? Must Muslims forgive? Do Hindus or Buddhists?
I have never thought about it before, but it so important and central to Christianity, I am just wondering how widespread it is as a central tenet of faith among other religions?
My coven that has close ties to Wicca/Christianity. In our religion when you make a mistake we giggle and hug each other. To forgive is Divine and a reminder we are not perfect, we're only human but that is ok! That is how we grow, how we spiritually mature as we search for that Perfect Love and Perfect Trust in our family.
P.S. you forgot to mention Wicca, for that mistake, you are hereby sentenced to many hugs and giggles from us! Ha-ha, love you!
I was hoping some of the Christian scholars here would have some knowledge of how other religions treat the foundational Christian cornerstone of forgiveness.
I was hoping maybe some Philosophy majors could give me an answere. It looks like I won't get it here.
Meanwhile, I have noticed that uncontroversial topics get no traction on the religion forum. It seems people here just want to fight and argue. Those are the threads that get discussion. Christians and atheists fighting. Catholics and Protestants fighting. Various Christian denominations coming to blows over the meaning of a single word or phrase.
People don't seem to want genuine discussion here. They just want a place to argue and demonstrate their superiority, and how they alone have it right while everybody else has it wrong.
When you ask a genuine question about religion, like I asked and still would like to know, you get crickets. There is nothing to fight about, so people don't even discuss the topic. I guess it is not fun to be in a real discussion, instead of picking fights, like the one guy responding to this thread who wants to fight over forgiveness being required for salvation. That wasn't my question, and he knows it.
There are 4000 religions that have been identified in 5 major groups from Christianity and Islam, to Scientology and Voodoo.
All I asked, is forgiveness fundamental to any other religions besides Christianity?
How do you figure that it's not necessary?
Matthew 6:15 states "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours."
I am hoping to avoid fights over interpretations. All I am asking for is, do any of the other 4000 religions in the 5 major groups require forgiveness of your brothers and your neighbors as a foundational requirement?
Judaism encourages forgiveness but it is not required. It is NOT foundational. Not fundmental. Unlike Christianity, it is optional.
Islam recommends forgiveness, but it is not required. Optional. At the same time, Islam atually allows for revenge and vengeance. That is the complete opposite of Christianity since transforming from "eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek.
Buddhism seems to come closest to Christian forgiveness, but doesn't get there. You have to give up your hate and grudge and forgiveness is one method to get there, but I see nothing about forgiveness in and of itself being central to Buddhism. Maybe it is understood, but any way you can give up hatred and ill-will, works. Forgiveness is not a requirement that I can find.
In Hinduism, forgiveness is one of the 6 cardinal virtues. Christianity too has cardinal virtues, but as nice as they are, they are not foundational the way forgiveness is, which is a central to Christian ethics. Still, being so important, it is central-ish.
So all of the 5 main religions promote forgiveness, but only Christianity REQUIRES it. At the same time, it is promoted in all religions, which makes sense to me. It is an important aspect of loving and letting go.
Bahai also promotes forgiveness but does not appear to require it.
Judaism encourages forgiveness but it is not required. It is NOT foundational. Not fundmental. Unlike Christianity, it is optional.
Islam recommends forgiveness, but it is not required. Optional. At the same time, Islam atually allows for revenge and vengeance. That is the complete opposite of Christianity since transforming from "eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek.
Buddhism seems to come closest to Christian forgiveness, but doesn't get there. You have to give up your hate and grudge and forgiveness is one method to get there, but I see nothing about forgiveness in and of itself being central to Buddhism. Maybe it is understood, but any way you can give up hatred and ill-will, works. Forgiveness is not a requirement that I can find.
In Hinduism, forgiveness is one of the 6 cardinal virtues. Christianity too has cardinal virtues, but as nice as they are, they are not foundational the way forgiveness is, which is a central to Christian ethics. Still, being so important, it is central-ish.
So all of the 5 main religions promote forgiveness, but only Christianity REQUIRES it. At the same time, it is promoted in all religions, which makes sense to me. It is an important aspect of loving and letting go.
Bahai also promotes forgiveness but does not appear to require it.
Does anybody else see this differently?
If your point is that Christianity is unique in having an emphasis on forgiveness as an explicit commandment to followers, I'm not sure the idea is that great to begin with.
In my experience and observation from my years in evangelical Christianity, in practice what happened was that forgiveness got conflated with forgetting past offenses and trusting the person as if they had never harmed you in any way. And this, combined with a chronic "don't ever say anything that might remotely upset anyone" ethos, all too often resulted in really terrible or non-existent interpersonal boundaries -- indeed, in many people even lacking a concept of boundaries.
One can forgive, love, and see the divine in someone who has hurt you but while that creates the space for the person to earn your trust back, it doesn't absolve them from earning your trust back or make it fast or instantaneous or even easy. Nor is "letting bygones be bygones" some sort of test of your faith, or is being uncomfortable lettings someone back into your life a failure of faith.
While all of this seems rather self-evident, I can assure you that again and again I saw people get in very serious trouble around these things ... and get VERY bad advice on how to handle themselves around abusers, for example.
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