Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
That the apostles believed something does not mean that they were correct. And, by the way, not all christian sects believe in the trinity.
That they witnessed his crucifixion...just means they witnessed his crucifixion. That they knew him...just means that they knew him.
Yes, the other poster does attack people...particularly their intellect. But you attack other posters frequently.
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I still owe you another Rep point Phet
Bishop Spong makes references to this in many of his books. The gospels were never written by eyewitnesses, and were written in Greek, a language that neither Jesus NOR his illiterate disciples could speak (or read or write) The gospels were written long after the fact, by people who were trying to reconcile the Jesus myth to fit their agenda at the time.
The earliest books written by Paul (who I do not accept as anything more than what I have already stated) Paul never met or knew Jesus.
Scholars date the Epistle of James in the 50s making it an early writing, and while traditionally said to be written by James , brother of Jesus, many scholars doubt this. Evidence points to an anonymous source, and as far as we know, Jesus, his followers, family and most of the general populace who would have followed him was probably illiterate. James the brother of Jesus could not have written anything, especially in Greek, and Jesus never told anyone to write anything down as they went anyway.
Likewise Greek writing would not have been commonplace for the average person in the first century, which suggests that, since the epistle was written in Greek, it was probably a first century writing, written with the name of James attached. Similar to Peter, Jude and John's epistles on various timelines. So no, not written by an eye-witness.
All in all, the Bible is an interesting source of theology, of what people believed, but it is far from an accurate account of what really happened.
BUT fiction is powerful, consider this photo. Look familiar?
DAVY CROCKETT HERO OF THE ALAMO
I am sure you already know this, but for the benefit of those who do not:
Davy Crockett never owned nor wore a coonskin hat. That was Hollywood. Do the research, look it up.
BUT fiction is powerful, life imitates Art and people follow mythic beliefs that have no semblance of truth, no evidence and most people neither know nor care, and many will not change because, and psychology shows this, CHANGE scares many people.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
One possible solution: stop clinging to a religion that has been shown to be false by almost every field of study. Do you really want to base your entire life on a fantasy?
Reality bites. It's true. As a former "Lutheran Fundie," I know it. But it's better than basing your entire life on a fantasy.
I look at my parents and see how they have based their whole lives on a falsehood. It's tragic.
I see how their religion makes them hard-hearted toward their fellow humans. They really do believe that all humans deserve punishment, and they have all of the political beliefs that flow logically from that. Do you really want to become like them?
You're probably thinking that I sound just like the Serpent in The Garden. "Did God Really Say?" That's one of Christianity's built-in defense mechanisms that traps so many. Hopefully you are smart enough to see through that mind-trick.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Freak80 again.
Excellent Post I have told more than a few Christians , in person, who had that "hate the world" belief and mindset that I simply will not follow their religion because, more than anything else, I do not want to be like them.
We have this group here that hangs out at one of the local clubs. They wear black clothing, capes, paint their faces white and identify as Vampires. They know that Vampires are fictional characters, but they cosplay as the creatures anyway, frequently going all out with their public show of their hobby. As far as I know, they are not killing anyone for refusing to believe or accept what they do. They basically leave others alone but will gladly talk to and answer questions about who they are and the lifestyle which they are cosplaying.
The most common cliché response they reported to me was "Vampires are not real"
Yeah, so what. God is not real either. But people still form their lives around it. And if it brings pleasure to their lives and they are NOT harming anyone else in society or in the world, then what harm is it to take a fictional character and center a life around it? (Not discussing whether it is psychologically healthy or not.)
To someone like my late grandmother, who was a vocal southern Baptist but hated Star Trek, her reason for hating Star Trek was as she said "Because they don't really fly around space in spaceships like that "
But yet, there was nothing real about her God, her Jesus story or any valid evidence that her beliefs were not based entirely on fiction.
So again, was it harmful for her to have beliefs in a fictional God? As long as she is not harming anyone else as a result?
Sadly, Too many Christians think that their faith gives them
carte blanche to do anything they want to others, whether it is slavery, government interference (which is expressly forbidden in the US Constitution) not to mention abuse of other races, LGBT Rights, reproductive rights....the list goes on.
I knew Baptists growing up, as I mentioned before, who were Teachers and "Ameners" on Sunday mornings then hatemongers, racists (KKK) and wife beaters during the week. Does Christianity encourage, enable or tolerate this? Obviously it must.
I assure you, if the local vampire clan attacked a person and assaulted them, things would not go well legally or otherwise for the cosplayers. That double standard though often accuses Christians of similar acts.
But again, finding evidence is one thing, accepting it is another. Most people do not have the self esteem or self confidence to do that, and many more fear change. Change can be scary to some people.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Pay closer attention, BF. The Bible is NOT the word of God. The Word of God (Logos) ONLY refers to Jesus, not mere words written in ink! The scriptures are inspirations from God interpreted by our primitive ancestors using their misguided and mistaken beliefs about God. That applies to the apostles who believed in the same God as those who rejected Jesus.
The followers of Jesus tried their best to understand Jesus but they simply could not conceive of a God who IS agape love and forgiveness. Their entire lives were spent believing in and worshiping a wrathful and vengeful who continually needed to be appeased by us "filthy rags" by blood sacrifices. Even knowing Jesus could not dissuade them from that deep-seated belief. That is why they interpreted the crucifixion the way they did.
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AS I have said before, I was a Christian for many years. I have travelled many places across the globe. I have met, spoken to, interviewed, worshipped beside and celebrated with all sort of people of all sorts of faiths. I have attended Latin Mass in the Vatican (recently) I have meditated in small towns in Japan with Buddhist Monks. I have been to Pentecostal Revivals, Episcopal Eucharists, I have worshipped in Jewish Temple, Native Sweat lodges, New Age cults of various ilk. I have listened to channelers, fortune tellers, gurus, Hindu mystics, I have met witches, pagans, believers, non believers. And I have
never EVER ANYWHERE in ANYTHING I have ever done, or from anyone I ever spoke with
ANYWHERE EVER suggested that the Bible is the "Word of God" I have seen no evidence ANYWHERE or from ANYONE that would indicate that. There is NO EVIDENCE that the Bible is the "Word of God" but there is evidence that it cannot be, and a simple analysis of logic and reason shows that. But logic and reason do not seem to apply in many religious circles.
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