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When I read the list of early Christian writers provided on a thread here by TmsRetired, I was reminded what a project the formation of the canon of scripture must have been. And how it would seem impossible to achieve today, given the lack of conformity within Christendom.
As much as I may agree on many points with the dear Bishop, I think it's a utopian vision.
Perhaps the fault lies with the Christian teachers and preachers.
Rather then a new vocabulary, maybe new definitions or explanations.
But I think the 12 points should be considered and discussed by Christians' and churches everywhere.
As an atheist, it sounds (to me) like Spong finally woke up to reality. Wonder why he doesn't just leave Christianity behind? Once one applies Spong's 12 Points to Christianity, there isn't much left anyway.
As an atheist, it sounds (to me) like Spong finally woke up to reality. Wonder why he doesn't just leave Christianity behind? Once one applies Spong's 12 Points to Christianity, there isn't much left anyway.
He's dead, for one thing.
But when he wasn't dead, that was a question many asked.
As an Episcopal Bishop, he had a platform, and the fact that he was a Bishop saying the things he said gave him more of a spotlight than, say, Freak80 on a message board.
To be honest with you...that's how I (and others) feel about you and your mantra.
Glad Spong has you worried.
Absolutely. Imagine being so insecure in one's faith that an alternate idea is threatening? Or being so afraid that a Deity will punish you for having the "wrong thoughts" ? Or so unable to hear an alternate opinion without fear of being converted/deconverted ? It is sad to live one;s live in fear and hate.
I grew up around southern Baptists. I am glad that they are not part of my life or thinking now. Much of what Spong teaches is similar to concepts used by psychologists who subscribe to older Rogerian philosophy and yes, fundies see it as a threat. I have one fundie friend who actually showed me a copy of the Email he sent to Bishop Spong that was concluded with "I hope you and your followers burn in hell for all eternity..." That is the kind of loving, self assured response I would expect from a fundamentalist Christian.
I however, would hope that people would use Spong's ideas to question just how unhealthy many outdated (superstitious, paranoid even) beliefs are detrimental to the mind body and spirit and choose self love and self esteem over self loathing and a hope for eternal reward/punishment.
But when he wasn't dead, that was a question many asked.
As an Episcopal Bishop, he had a platform, and the fact that he was a Bishop saying the things he said gave him more of a spotlight than, say, Freak80 on a message board.
As an atheist, it sounds (to me) like Spong finally woke up to reality. Wonder why he didn’t just leave Christianity behind? Once one applies Spong's 12 Points to Christianity, there isn't much left anyway.
Correction to my previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
As an atheist, it sounds (to me) like Spong finally woke up to reality. Wonder why he doesn't just leave Christianity behind? Once one applies Spong's 12 Points to Christianity, there isn't much left anyway.
As an atheist, it sounds (to me) like Spong finally woke up to reality. Wonder why he didn’t just leave Christianity behind? Once one applies Spong's 12 Points to Christianity, there isn't much left anyway.
Correction to my previous post:
He described himself many items as a "Non-Theist" a term for people who believe that god does not exist as an entity or corporeal spirit. He also taught, as I have always said, that Jesus was a fully human individual, that he never performed miracles. His proof of this was that Paul, who wrote before the gospels, never had a concept of a virgin birth, miracles, or a bodily resurrection. Paul believed that the Spirit of Jesus was talking to him in his "visions". (I believe that it was a hallucination brought on by a neuro-psychiatric disorder, most likely focal seizure)
Makes us wonder what Jesus' followers, who during Jesus life, had no concept or idea of a resurrection, and thought that they were following not so much the Messiah, perhaps but a gifted teacher who's ideas were so far ahead of the time that they had to invent a divine set of words and ideas to describe him.
Remember people in Jesus' times were superstitious, somewhat distrustful of other races, other tribes, uneducated, illiterate, and rarely traveled more than a mile from where they were born. SO knowledge and views of the world was limited to fables and stories told by elders, be it in the temples or otherwise. Then along comes a rabbi who says "Hey wait Forgive those who offend you Love your neighbors, even your enemies, love yourselves..." this may have clashed with many mindsets of the time. And since practically no one in occupied Judea would have had the ways or means to travel to the far East and meet with Monks or teachers of more enlightened religions, then what Jesus said was groundbreaking for that time and place.
SO for the time. yes it as influential, although the religion and dogma that have resulted from it a not relevant anymore today. Bishop Spong would agree with that.
Spong is so far off the rails he isn't in the same county. It's sad that you're so uninformed that you can't see that.
I said that Spong came from the "Christian tradition" in that he was an Episcopal Bishop. I realize that up there in Lincoln County the Baptist church may not consider Episcopals as Christians... but we can't pretend he was some kind of Mullah as your analogy suggests.
The fact of the matter is that this guy is pretty typical of your "social gospel" Christians. And however off the rails they might be... there are enough of them out there that they are part of "mainstream Christianity" albeit on the left edge. In fact they have even reached your neck of the woods. Good 'ole Pastor Anne over at Messiah ELCU is one. I reckon she would be one of your local heretics.
Spong is so far off the rails he isn't in the same county. It's sad that you're so uninformed that you can't see that.
Ironically, Spong was saying that about you.
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