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Swami Vivekananda’s words do not jive with secular ideal, whatever that means. Seeing Divinity in everything , in everyone, seeing them as manifestation of the one Divinity, requires the certainty that Divinity exists in the fist place. If that certainty is absent, then his words would hold no meaning.
One can serve humanity because one sees it as his duty, is moved to do something, anything, to ameliorate suffering, or the expectation that a good deed returns back in a good deed or karma, or for any number of reasons.
The two are not the same thing.
Of the two Swamiji’s words are more meaningful for me. It is also easier to be motivated to do good, and also gain peace and happiness.
Swamiji advocated harmony of all religions and in one of his lectures says a thing or two about atheism. It's somewhere in his "Complete Works" and I think it's in one of his four lectures on Practical Vedanta. When I get a chance I'll find it and post a link.
Swamiji advocated harmony of all religions and in one of his lectures says a thing or two about atheism. It's somewhere in his "Complete Works" and I think it's in one of his four lectures on Practical Vedanta. When I get a chance I'll find it and post a link.
Please do, it is always nice to read his words.
Harmony of all spiritual pathways is a truth that is baked into Hinduism, it is a theme that appears again and again in several texts. He only made it explicit to his Western, Christian, audience, for whom the idea was totally foreign, pun intended
I don’t see any conflict with atheism and Hinduism. Belief in Divinity earns neither good nor bad karma. It is always in the action, and both atheists and believers suffer or enjoy their karma equally. The attitude the Swamiji talks about it, is attidue, Bhava. The attitude “I honor the Divinity that is in you and that is in me,” somewhat attenuates judgy attitude, the seeking of retribution and revenge.
All said and done, per your OP, if all this is not reflected in our actions and words, it does not amount to much. So we are always striving, we are human.
Swamiji advocated harmony of all religions and in one of his lectures says a thing or two about atheism. It's somewhere in his "Complete Works" and I think it's in one of his four lectures on Practical Vedanta. When I get a chance I'll find it and post a link.
Took a quick look and it is where I thought, in Practical Vedanta. I'll leave it to the atheists/agnostics to provide their take on "From a secular perspective it might be something like recognizing our shared humanity on a strong empathetic level and honoring that." and how that might tie into Swamiji's overarching message.
As certain religions of the world say that a man who does not believe in a Personal God outside of himself is an atheist, so the Vedanta says, a man who does not believe in himself is an atheist. Not believing in the glory of our own soul is what the Vedanta calls atheism.
We can see that all the difference between man and man is owing to the existence or non-existence of faith in himself. Faith in ourselves will do everything. I have experienced it in my own life, and am still doing so; and as I grow older that faith is becoming stronger and stronger. He is an atheist who does not believe in himself. The old religions said that he was an atheist who did not believe in God. The new religion says that he is the atheist who does not believe in himself. But it is not selfish faith because the Vedanta, again, is the doctrine of oneness. It means faith in all, because you are all. Love for yourselves means love for all, love for animals, love for everything, for you are all one.
We should, therefore, follow reason and also sympathise with those who do not come to any sort of belief, following reason. For it is better that mankind should become atheist by following reason than blindly believe in two hundred millions of gods on the authority of anybody. What we want is progress, development, realisation. No theories ever made men higher. No amount of books can help us to become purer. The only power is in realisation, and that lies in ourselves and comes from thinking. Let men think. A clod of earth never thinks; but it remains only a lump of earth. The glory of man is that he is a thinking being. It is the nature of man to think and therein he differs from animals. I believe in reason and follow reason having seen enough of the evils of authority, for I was born in a country where they have gone to the extreme of authority.
Go out into it as Buddha did, and struggle to lessen it or die in the attempt. Forget yourselves; this is the first lesson to be learnt, whether you are a theist or an atheist, whether you are an agnostic or a Vedantist, a Christian or a Mohammedan. The one lesson obvious to all is the destruction of the little self and the building up of the Real Self.
I'm not sure about that guy and his quote, but as to "what does it all boil down to", I'd say its the goal of trying to find common ground on Earth with others as much as possible. We're all humans and neighbors, after all. There's much that we will always have in common.
We've each always been individual and unique, with our own ideas and freedoms of choice. In previous times, it wasn't as much of a problem, and most would just "live and let live". But it's all turned around now. People want to find every reason to argue and disagree. It's highly perverse, and comes from all directions, all groups. And with that, personal review and personal accountability is also lacking.
No religion is needed to find common ground, and seek to understand each other. That's the starting point. Then, philosophy, spirituality, and possibly religion can be added, as long as not conflicting with the primary goal. High diversity and high unity is possible, regardless of what the naysayers strive for.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 06-13-2023 at 12:13 PM..
"After so much tapasya and austerity, I've known that the highest truth is this: He is present in all beings. These are all the manifested forms of Him. There is no other God to seek for. He alone is worshipping God who serves all beings." ~ Swami Vivekananda
From a secular perspective it might be something like recognizing our shared humanity on a strong empathetic level and honoring that.
In other words what does it matter if we can't manifest whatever philosophy or religion we subscribe to in our daily interactions?
That sounds an awful lot like secular humanism to me. Every single being has inherent worth just by being sentient.
Show compassion by never stripping another of their humanity. I think all these groups we divide people up into are facilitating the inhumanity.
I had a conversation with someone that is judged as political but it's relevant here. It shouldn't even be a political statement but it is. This person couldn't understand what Juneteenth had to do with them. This person couldn't understand that slavery was about what other people did to other people simply by using skin color as some divine dividing factor. I challenged this person to call a person a person instead of whit guy or black guy. So all this label making trying to become enlightened is probably a trick.
That sounds an awful lot like secular humanism to me. Every single being has inherent worth just by being sentient.
Show compassion by never stripping another of their humanity. I think all these groups we divide people up into are facilitating the inhumanity.
I had a conversation with someone that is judged as political but it's relevant here. It shouldn't even be a political statement but it is. This person couldn't understand what Juneteenth had to do with them. This person couldn't understand that slavery was about what other people did to other people simply by using skin color as some divine dividing factor.I challenged this person to call a person a person instead of whit guy or black guy. So all this label making trying to become enlightened is probably a trick.
That is indeed a political statement. Injustice caused with labels in the past can be rectified only by the use of the same labels. I do not wish for this thread to be closed so I will refrain from commenting further.
That is indeed a political statement. Injustice caused with labels in the past can be rectified only by the use of the same labels. I do not wish for this thread to be closed so I will refrain from commenting further.
Enlightenment is always positive. if labels do that, if identity is in labels, if personal pronouns matter, yes, learn the labels people want for themselves. We can all use some enlightenment.
Enlightenment is always positive. if labels do that, if identity is in labels, if personal pronouns matter, yes, learn the labels people want for themselves. We can all use some enlightenment.
I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I am talking about the labels people use to corral others. I guess they use them to corral themselves as well.
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