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Thoughts are are result of our organs of perception. They leave a trace in the mind. Vedanta has a word for it. Feelings, emotions, knowledge, experiences, all leave a trace in the mind. We project the world with the sum of these traces in our mind. We understand and interact with this world. The world is what our mind is.
Divinity too is such a trace in the mind. The means for this trace is not our organs of perception. To recognize the Divinity trace we need to know it. This knowledge needs to come from elsewhere - teachings, texts, reading, being drawn to it naturally for indiscernible reasons. This knowledge creates a unique trace in the mind by which we recognize Divinity. Vedanta has a name for that as well.
To know Divinity you need to seek it, and to seek Divinity is to love it, to love it is happiness.
There is no other way to understand Divinity.
It is evident that there really is no bridge to connect spirituality of Divinity with atheism. There can be no dialog because we speak different languages. One can know everything that are in scriptures, and read all the texts of various religions, and quote from them But without the mind with the Divinity trace there will be no understanding.
Thoughts are are result of our organs of perception. They leave a trace in the mind. Vedanta has a word for it. Feelings, emotions, knowledge, experiences, all leave a trace in the mind. We project the world with the sum of these traces in our mind. We understand and interact with this world. The world is what our mind is.
Divinity too is such a trace in the mind. The means for this trace is not our organs of perception. To recognize the Divinity trace we need to know it. This knowledge needs to come from elsewhere - teachings, texts, reading, being drawn to it naturally for indiscernible reasons. This knowledge creates a unique trace in the mind by which we recognize Divinity. Vedanta has a name for that as well.
To know Divinity you need to seek it, and to seek Divinity is to love it, to love it is happiness.
There is no other way to understand Divinity.
It is evident that there really is no bridge to connect spirituality of Divinity with atheism. There can be no dialog because we speak different languages. One can know everything that are in scriptures, and read all the texts of various religions, and quote from them But without the mind with the Divinity trace there will be no understanding.
I have a name for the bold as well - definitional brainwashing by platitude. That is what you call the "Divinity trace." You are correct that we cannot know Divinity through our sensory system, but we CAN know it directly through meditation. That is the kind of "knowing" that bypasses all the interpretations of others It is an unmistakable and nontransferable "knowing."
I have a name for the bold as well - definitional brainwashing by platitude. That is what you call the "Divinity trace." You are correct that we cannot know Divinity through our sensory system, but we CAN know it directly through meditation. That is the kind of "knowing" that bypasses all the interpretations of others It is an unmistakable and nontransferable "knowing."
Anything the mind objectifies is not the Self. Anything you encountered in your meditation is objectified and is not the Self. What you reflect is your ego, your I ness, that is not the Self.
All knowledge come through a source outside of us. That we have access to the texts, that we have access to wise teachers who know how to clear our doubts and help us understand, that we have the soundness of mind and intellect to absorb and understand are all due to our effort, and Ishvara’s blessing. When the Self is understood, ego dissolves and resolves into the one Self.
All is Divinity.
Anything the mind objectifies is not the Self. Anything you encountered in your meditation is objectified and is not the Self. What you reflect is your ego, your I ness, that is not the Self.
All knowledge come through a source outside of us. That we have access to the texts, that we have access to wise teachers who know how to clear our doubts and help us understand, that we have the soundness of mind and intellect to absorb and understand are all due to our effort, and Ishvara’s blessing. When the Self is understood, ego dissolves and resolves into the one Self. All is Divinity.
That is the paradox, isn't it? If/when That becomes a lived experience there is no separation.
“Action is for purification of the mind, not for gaining (knowing) the truth (of the Self). Knowledge of
This truth is by inquiry alone; not even a little knowledge of the truth that is Self is gained by a million actions.”
~ Dayananda Saraswati comments on Viviekachudamani by Shankara.
Meditation is work. Meditation can purify the mind, condition it to understand the Self. But it alone will never reveal the truth of the Self. It can bring peace and balance, but not the knowledge of the Self.
The knowledge of the Self is in the words of the scriptures. And the words alone do not bring one to realization. It is the meaning the words hold, that is understood accurately without distortion, that resolves into me that reveals the knowledge of the Self. Words and their meaning have that power and that power is Brhman.
So when in Recovery groups one says those words of surrendering to a higher power, the words and the meaning resolves into the mind, and creates a trace that empowers. That empowerment is the Higher Power, Brhman, God, Self.
“Action is for purification of the mind, not for gaining (knowing) the truth (of the Self). Knowledge of
This truth is by inquiry alone; not even a little knowledge of the truth that is Self is gained by a million actions.”
~ Dayananda Saraswati comments on Viviekachudamani by Shankara.
Meditation is work. Meditation can purify the mind, condition it to understand the Self. But it alone will never reveal the truth of the Self. It can bring peace and balance, but not the knowledge of the Self.
The knowledge of the Self is in the words of the scriptures. And the words alone do not bring one to realization. It is the meaning the words hold, that is understood accurately without distortion, that resolves into me that reveals the knowledge of the Self. Words and their meaning have that power and that power is Brhman.
So when in Recovery groups one says those words of surrendering to a higher power, the words and the meaning resolves into the mind, and creates a trace that empowers. That empowerment is the Higher Power, Brhman, God, Self.
Except when it isn't. I'm thinking of effortless, choiceless, do-nothing, just sitting "techniques". From my perspective they truly open up that space between You and the mind-body complex. By the way I misstated that Sadhguru quote. It's "If you have a little space between you and your physical body" and not "open up a little space between mind and consciousness", although from a practical perspective it's basically the same concept.
Except when it isn't. I'm thinking of effortless, choiceless, do-nothing, just sitting "techniques". From my perspective they truly open up that space between You and the mind-body complex. By the way I misstated that Sadhguru quote. It's "If you have a little space between you and your physical body" and not "open up a little space between mind and consciousness", although from a practical perspective it's basically the same concept.
It's a good discussion from the Yogic perspective. Well, except for the neuroscientific perspective of David Eagleman.
The upanishads and Shankara’s texts, insist no amount of work yields knowledge, and knowledge is the one and only pathway to realizing the truth of our Self. The knowledge essentially opens up a God-space in the mind, a new God-trace! Everything else that we do are actions that conditions ths mind to receive the knowledge.
The emphasis on knowledge is here to to counter the Dualists, who insist on the importance of karma, the rituals, the chantings, the worship, the practice of purity and pollution, and pay no attention to any instruction that does not direct them to DO something. They simply ignore the Self as something to be known. Their emphasis is in accumulating punya, good karma, and getting to heaven or at least a better situation in the next birth
Samadi, be it savikalpa or nirvikalpa, conditions the mind, aids is cultivating the attitudes that help us cope with the ups and downs of emotions, basically provides mental health. But it is not inquiry into the self. The inquiry is only through knowing. There is no heaven or hell, there is only now. Even the seeking of moksha isca desire to be got rid of.
I have a name for the bold as well - definitional brainwashing by platitude. That is what you call the "Divinity trace." You are correct that we cannot know Divinity through our sensory system, but we CAN know it directly through meditation. That is the kind of "knowing" that bypasses all the interpretations of others It is an unmistakable and nontransferable "knowing."
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Anything the mind objectifies is not the Self. Anything you encountered in your meditation is objectified and is not the Self. What you reflect is your ego, your I ness, that is not the Self. All knowledge come through a source outside of us. That we have access to the texts, that we have access to wise teachers who know how to clear our doubts and help us understand, that we have the soundness of mind and intellect to absorb and understand are all due to our effort, and Ishvara’s blessing. When the Self is understood, ego dissolves and resolves into the one Self.
All is Divinity.
What on earth made these teachers of yours so different from any of us? Knowing how to " clear our doubts and help us understand" sounds like brainwashing and indoctrination into the "proper way to think about Divinity," IMO.
What on earth made these teachers of yours so different from any of us? Knowing how to " clear our doubts and help us understand" sounds like brainwashing and indoctrination into the "proper way to think about Divinity," IMO.
There is no "proper way to think about Divinity,". I don't believe I said that.
You have been subjected to indoctrination of the worst kind and since all you know about is Christianity, you think everyone is indoctrinated the same way - by forcible brain washing.
I respect all my teachers from Kindergarden to my Masters in creative writing. That is my cultural grounding, to look upon teaching as one of most noble things one can do -to be able to impart knowledge.
Nobody can learn self-inquiry until they are ready for it. Self-inquiry is new knowledge. Everyone knows there is Divinity out there somewhere. But very few understand that Divinity is within ourselves, our true Self is nothing but Divinity itself. Learning this is not brain washing, just as learning anything new you did not know before is not brain washing. All knowledge come from outside of us, so you either read or listen or read and listen or teach yourself. But it is always from an outside source.
When one is ready you will find the texts, find the teachings, and find the teachers who are right for you. Nobody is forced to learn and there is no reward for it - no heaven, no God. Just peace and happiness here and now.
Since you are so consumed by ego, and with anger because you are unable to convince anyone about your "encounter" or to learn anything from you, you may never find the kind of teachers you can respect.
Advaita may not be for you.
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I'm thinking of effortless, choiceless, do-nothing, just sitting "techniques". From my perspective they truly open up that space between You and the mind-body complex. By the way I misstated that Sadhguru quote. It's "If you have a little space between you and your physical body" and not "open up a little space between mind and consciousness", although from a practical perspective it's basically the same concept.
