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Concerning Karma and the Buddhist take, how is the circle squared between no-self and transmigration/reincarnation? If there is no-self what transmigrates? Could it be as simple as misinterpretation, i.e. not-self vs. no-self?
karma is what migrates along with the mind, matures, reincarnates, cycles. nirvana is stopping the cycle, ending reincarnation, end to suffering. self remains pure satchitananda, always is.
Well, not exactly. I think, you intentionally over exaggerating and twisting what was said, to match your opinion previously expressed. And I think, you are confusing justice with revenge.
No, justice was what I was talking about. The fact that some may see some forms of justice as revenge is not my problem. If a family member were murdered I would want to see the murderer brought to justice ... not so I can see them suffer but so that the rule of law is affirmed to the benefit of society and out of respect for my family member.
I am speaking from a utilitarian perspective regarding your understanding of karma. If it is this esoteric, complicated, finicky thing that you can't draw clear principles around, then I find it has basically zero utility, even if for the sake of argument it is true.
Even simple cause and effect is sometimes less useful than it could be, because as I said, causal chains are sometimes obscure. But at least cause and effect is simple and dependable, and usually on a human scale -- even if we cant always clearly see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
maybe, before reflectively responding with something, think about it?
Lol -- I think you meant to say "reflexively". But no, I actually am quite reflective.
But nobody has been talking about vengeance, until YOU brought it up.
Karma is not cosmic. It is cause and effect. You have the mistaken impression that karma is cosmic justice.
Justice delayed is justice denied is the same as expecting to avenge the harm done to one per the laws of a society made by humans. Karma gets fructified in its own time and ways, not per the dictates of the laws of the state. expecting the two to align is foolishness. consequences also do nay materialize according to one’s expectations. they follow the cosmic law and order.
No, justice was what I was talking about. The fact that some may see some forms of justice as revenge is not my problem. If a family member were murdered I would want to see the murderer brought to justice ... not so I can see them suffer but so that the rule of law is affirmed to the benefit of society and out of respect for my family member.
I am speaking from a utilitarian perspective regarding your understanding of karma. If it is this esoteric, complicated, finicky thing that you can't draw clear principles around, then I find it has basically zero utility, even if for the sake of argument it is true.
Even simple cause and effect is sometimes less useful than it could be, because as I said, causal chains are sometimes obscure. But at least cause and effect is simple and dependable, and usually on a human scale -- even if we cant always clearly see it.
Lol -- I think you meant to say "reflexively". But no, I actually am quite reflective.
I'm ESL person, pardon my linguistic glitches. Glad, you understood intended meaning.
I have no problem, with what you say. In the nutshell, you are correct. The only thing being, human justice is only that - justice from a very short period time perspective. But yes, any justice is better than none.
Though, truly, it'd have been more fruitful, to have society, that bread and rares its members in a manner, that they simply are not even considering a crime of a sort. Prevention is always best treatment. Self conscientious person does not even consider anything that could harm others.
Justice delayed is justice denied is the same as expecting to avenge the harm done to one per the laws of a society made by humans. Karma gets fructified in its own time and ways, not per the dictates of the laws of the state. expecting the two to align is foolishness. consequences also do nay materialize according to one’s expectations. they follow the cosmic law and order.
See, there you go again about vengeance -- something no one else has been talking about. Justice and vengeance are two different things.
Do have any idea how consistently bitter you sound in your posts?
Notice…these are a few of my thoughts about karma. I’m not expressing any official view of karma in any aspect of Buddhism. They’re my thoughts. Heck, half the posters on this forum make up stuff all the time; now it’s my turn. And this is what I think now. It may not be what I think six months or a year from now.
First off, and this has been my position for a very long time: karma is not some type of cosmic justice system. That is a somewhat pop Western view of karma that seems to be derived from christian thinking. In my view – and this is traditional Buddhist thinking for some Buddhists – karma is merely cause and effect. Do good things and you’re likely to find yourself in situations where good things are more likely to happen to you. Do bad things, hang with bad people, and more negative things are more likely to happen to you.
In Thai Buddhism, you might say that there are a set of scales seeking balance. On one side of the scales are things that one does that are good and create merit – “bun”. On the other side of the scales are things that are “evil”, or at least negative – “bap”. Okay, I can buy that concept.
But when I go back and connect that to The Noble Eightfold Path (Right understanding, Right thought, Right speech, Right action, Right livelihood, Right effort, Right mindfulness, and Right concentration) and the concept that one should be held responsible for things done with intent (either bun or bap), I come to the conclusion that one EARNS bun or bap, and that brings in the factor of deciding what PRICE one can accept with a decision to do something that would appear to earn one bap (negative karma). This answers the puzzle about the perception that Buddhists are supposed to be passive. Passivity has often caused loss of life and even loss of country. Passivity sometimes causes divorce and sometimes allows child or spousal abuse. Passivity is often not a good thing. The question is, at least to me, what price is one willing to pay – including bap – for not being passive or for doing other things that may be necessary, but negative? That is the earning of karma, bap or bun.
Again, just some of my thoughts.
I think what you are talking about is more about mindset than anything else.
Jim Carrey's 10 million dollar check story is a good example.
In 1985, at the age of 23, he wrote himself a $10 million check and dated it for 10 years in the future for 'acting services rendered'.
10 years later he was indeed a famous Hollywood actor worth 10 million dollars.
It's about belief in yourself, determination and making things happen.
It's about putting yourself in situations where you can affect change.
I'm not a believer in Karma but I am a strong believer in being in charge of your own destiny as far as you are physically able.
I'm an example of that truth be told. My life now couldn't be further removed from the one in which I grew up.
I think what you are talking about is more about mindset than anything else.
Jim Carrey's 10 million check story is a good example.
In 1985, at the age of 23, he wrote himself a $10 million check and dated it for 10 years in the future for 'acting services rendered'.
10 years later he was indeed a famous Hollywood actor worth 10 million dollars.
It's about belief in yourself, determination and making things happen.
It's about putting yourself in situations where you can affect change.
I'm not a believer in Karma but I am a strong believer in being in charge of your own destiny as far as you are physically able.
I'm an example of that truth be told. My life now couldn't be further removed from the one in which I grew up.
Yes, sort of. It sort of goes along with Shakespeare's old adage: "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves". Everytime we make a decision...or fail to make a decision...we write our karma.
Yes, sort of. It sort of goes along with Shakespeare's old adage: "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves". Everytime we make a decision...or fail to make a decision...we write our karma.
See, there you go again about vengeance -- something no one else has been talking about. Justice and vengeance are two different things.
Do have any idea how consistently bitter you sound in your posts?
They are related. There are victims who have forgiven their attacker. So there is revenge and forgiveness, both related to seeking justice. Justice awarded by a system devised by imperfect humans is also imperfect and can be injustice. execution and imprisonment of innocent people are all too common. sometimes the guilty goes free. pretending that seeking justice is not revenge is baloney. what is crime itself is decided by a system unique to the culture. justice is a concept.
let me reflect back one of your favorite sayings. get a mirror.
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