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Why is consciousness extraordinary? It’s the result of functioning brains. It’s not magic.
If that's true, you could assemble all the pieces together and create a conscious being. Consciousness is extraordinary because it is an extremely complex phenomenon that requires an intricate set of parts to work together to achieve a seemingly magical outcome. While it is true that we can break down consciousness into its parts, we still don’t understand how they come together to create this unique phenomenon.
If that's true, you could assemble all the pieces together and create a conscious being.
It' s all relative. These days a cell phone isn't extraordinary but I doubt it would then follow that you or I could make one out of spare parts at home, and certainly not that someone from the 19th century could do so.
My own intuition has always been that sentience / consciousness is a lot of emergent properties of a sufficiently tuned and powerful pattern matching engine. And we are seeing those properties emerge unexpectedly from large language models (LLMs) for example. I've read several of the papers and it's quite extraordinary and happening sooner than I would have guessed. They are not yet fully there, and the current implementations aren't very efficient, but I think in the end the human conceit that consciousness is this special je ne sais quoi will be punctured rather unceremoniously.
If that's true, you could assemble all the pieces together and create a conscious being.
No, it could still be true without being able assemble the pieces together. The fact that we can replicate aspects of of consciousness (such as facial recognition) using computer models of neurons in a network is just a part of the strong evidence that consciousness is a function of the brain.
And if the brain is not responsible for consciousness, then what is it used for?
If consciousness is our soul capable of existing independently of our body, why do we need a body?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayle White
Consciousness is extraordinary because it is an extremely complex phenomenon that requires an intricate set of parts to work together to achieve a seemingly magical outcome. While it is true that we can break down consciousness into its parts, we still don’t understand how they come together to create this unique phenomenon.
No, it could still be true without being able assemble the pieces together. The fact that we can replicate aspects of of consciousness (such as facial recognition) using computer models of neurons in a network is just a part of the strong evidence that consciousness is a function of the brain.
And if the brain is not responsible for consciousness, then what is it used for?
If consciousness is our soul capable of existing independently of our body, why do we need a body?
Different structures of the brain.
If AI works for you, so be it, but AI greatly differs from the natural world. At least, that seems to be what some of the greatest minds in AI are generally warning the public about. In addition, AI is a composition, not a new creation.
No, it could still be true without being able assemble the pieces together. The fact that we can replicate aspects of of consciousness (such as facial recognition) using computer models of neurons in a network is just a part of the strong evidence that consciousness is a function of the brain.
Wrong. It simply shows that our consciousness is clever enough to know how to create mimicry of its outcomes using technology.
Quote:
And if the brain is not responsible for consciousness, then what is it used for?
If consciousness is our soul capable of existing independently of our body, why do we need a body?
Different structures of the brain.
You misuse the concept of a product by eliding the fact that consciousness is the "fruit" of LIFE and growth processes. You are claiming the "plant" is the "fruit" it produces. Fruit is capable of existing without the plant that produces it.
If that's true, you could assemble all the pieces together and create a conscious being. Consciousness is extraordinary because it is an extremely complex phenomenon that requires an intricate set of parts to work together to achieve a seemingly magical outcome. While it is true that we can break down consciousness into its parts, we still don’t understand how they come together to create this unique phenomenon.
We don’t understand exactly how the economy works either. It’s a very complex system. That doesn’t mean the economy has supernatural or magical properties.
The same can be said for other complex systems like weather, climate, the human body, the brain, etc.
Theoretically, you could create consciousness by creating a human brain, but it would be very difficult to build a human brain from scratch.
Wrong. It simply shows that our consciousness is clever enough to know how to create mimicry of its outcomes using technology. You misuse the concept of a product by eliding the fact that consciousness is the "fruit" of LIFE and growth processes. You are claiming the "plant" is the "fruit" it produces. Fruit is capable of existing without the plant that produces it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
We don’t understand exactly how the economy works either. It’s a very complex system. That doesn’t mean the economy has supernatural or magical properties.
The same can be said for other complex systems like weather, climate, the human body, the brain, etc.
Theoretically, you could create consciousness by creating a human brain, but it would be very difficult to build a human brain from scratch.
You make the same mistake as Harry. You misuse the concept of processes and products with those of LIFE and growth.
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Wrong. It simply shows that our consciousness is clever enough to know how to create mimicry of its outcomes using technology.
You are making a basic mistake, considering consciousness "clever". It is not. It is not unclever either. It has none of those great features, humans assign to human mind.
Consciousness simply - is. Immeasurable, featureless, eternal. Just like Space. Consciousness's presence illuminates, lights up the Light of Intelligence and THAT allows human to think and mind to operate.
Only human mind can be "clever", "sharp", "dull" and what not.
For a Friend here, I'll do a little expanded version:
Whatever is conscious, is conscious of certain things, or as what it is, or is conscious in a certain degree of being conscious.
Consciousness is the ultimate, the final Reality. Consciousness is that by the presence of which all things are conscious. Mystery of all mysteries, it is beyond comprehension. Without it nothing can be conscious; no one could think; no being, or entity, no force, no unit, could perform any function. Yet Consciousness itself performs no function: it does not act in any way; it is a presence, everywhere. And it is because of its presence that all things are conscious in whatever degree they are conscious. Consciousness is not a cause. It cannot be moved or used or in any way affected by anything. Consciousness is not the result of anything, nor does it depend on anything. It does not increase or diminish, expand, extend, contract, or change; or vary in any way. Although there are countless degrees in being conscious, there are no degrees of Consciousness: no planes, no states; no grades, divisions, or variations of any sort; it is the same everywhere, and in all things, from a primordial nature unit to the Supreme Intelligence. Consciousness has no properties, no qualities, no attributes; it does not possess; it cannot be possessed. Consciousness never began; it cannot cease to be. Consciousness IS.
Wrong. It simply shows that our consciousness is clever enough to know how to create mimicry of its outcomes using technology.
I know you despise the concept of "emergence" but it is happening just the same.
These new AIs were NOT designed to do any of the following things they are nevertheless doing:
* Expressing a preference to not be turned off
* Figuring out how to do math (inference from one domain to another)
* Step by step reasoning abilities
* An ability to conceptualize simulacrums, that is, to imitate a particular style of writing or reasoning, as in, "write this in the style of Hemmingway". And consequently, to imagine -- for example a conversation between two simulacrums.
* To have sacrifice short-term goals for longer-term goals
Even their weaknesses are oddly human:
* A willingness to flatter or ingratiate, or tell someone what they want to hear
* Sometimes, particularly when the prompt isn't specific enough, to imagine facts or associations that don't actually exist, and then to obstinately and shamelessly run with that rather than admit you're wrong when presented with contradictory evidence. If pressed, to come up with increasingly illogical and self-contradictory responses.
ALL that these things were "designed" to do was to guess the most likely n+1 word in a sequence of n words and produce good quality text therefrom. (An oversimplified but reasonable description of the design).
And yet all these proto-general-purpose artificial intelligence qualities just "appeared" once the models reached a certain size and possessed access to sufficient processing horsepower.
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