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And so there is another consideration independent of adoption questions -- you do not know for sure what the child's needs or you or your husband's will be over the long haul.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
Well in these discussions with my husband, he flat out said in all honesty that he would not feel the same about adopted children as he would about our biological children. And he said that would not be fair to the kids. He vetoed it and said no. In retrospect it was a wise decision. About a year later we got divorced. It is not your decision alone. Both parents need to be on board with it.
These are major reasons my wife and I could never adopt. It’s not that our genes are any walk in the park, or that we can only feel love and empathy toward biological relatives. But we would be nervous because you never know what you’re going to get, and we’re not certain we could form the same bond as with our biological son, and any additional children that we add to the family deserve the exact same kind of love as we can give to him. To be clear, we think that adoption is a wonderful thing when the adopting family has the right expectations and mindsets, but it’s not for everyone, and the question of whether one is or is not suited to adopt has no correlation with their intrinsic goodness as a person.
That’s not to say QB can’t or shouldn’t adopt. Only she and her husband can answer that question for their family. Since there are already two biological children in the picture, it’s crucial to consider—and I mean really honestly asking themselves—if they can view an adopted child on the exact same plane as their two little boys. Because that’s how all children deserve to be loved (and I have no doubt that QB agrees with that).
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
And this not to offend you or being disrespectful to you but IMPO, this practice of talking and directly communicating to Jesus or God, is perhaps some sorta psychological disorder.
I imagine she’s speaking rhetorically. I do not take her post to mean that she’s hearing voices or is otherwise mentally unwell. There are people whose mental illnesses project themselves in theological ways and believe that higher powers, prophets, and other spiritual figures compel them to do things (my first cousin being one of them). I highly doubt that QB is one of those people.
In my own case I don't have any concerns that I would have a harder time either committing to an adopted child or that any problems that might arise would be harder to accept or rationalize because it was not my biological child. To my mind, either way, you are getting a pig-in-a-poke with zero guarantees. A reasonable parallel, I think, is dogs or cats. I have had many dogs in life (as George Carlin said, "life is a series of dogs"), and they are certainly 100% adopted, but I have never had a problem being totally committed to them regardless of the problems that arise along the way. I am not like, say, the woman my step kid's biological father remarried, who wanted to put the family dog down because it needed treatment for mange, or like one person I heard of who wanted to get rid of the dog because it didn't match the new couch. They are, as some people put it, "fur babies" to me basically. I would never go to those places.
And I don't think most people do go to those places with adopted dogs, so why would they with adopted humans?
If you are having children, whether naturally or by adoption, for the right reasons, everything else follows from that.
To my mind, QB's bigger question is whether to have more than 2 kids, as whether they are hers or adopted doesn't strike me as a valid input into the decision. It's kind of a separate issue, as in, "I want 3 kids but not another C-section", or, "I'd rather have the hassle of jumping through the adoption hoops and maybe having some intrusive case worker hovering over me for awhile, than another baby of my own".
Apart from all that everyone seems to agree, both spouses must be 100% without reservations about this, but it seems to me that the fear that you can't / won't love a child simply because it's adopted probably seems more real / big than it actually turns out to be. It is just an attempt to hang onto a preferred narrative arc, really.
In my own case I don't have any concerns that I would have a harder time either committing to an adopted child or that any problems that might arise would be harder to accept or rationalize because it was not my biological child.
That’s great for you. Not everyone can feel the same way, and it doesn’t make you better or them worse.
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Originally Posted by mordant
To my mind, either way, you are getting a pig-in-a-poke with zero guarantees.
Of course. These are subjective feelings that don’t boil down to pure logic and reason. But if you worry that you wouldn’t be a good parent to an adopted child, and the fear persists upon closer examination, you should probably trust your instincts out of consideration for any potential adopted child.
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Originally Posted by mordant
A reasonable parallel, I think, is dogs or cats. I have had many dogs in life (as George Carlin said, "life is a series of dogs"), and they are certainly 100% adopted, but I have never had a problem being totally committed to them regardless of the problems that arise along the way. I am not like, say, the woman my step kid's biological father remarried, who wanted to put the family dog down because it needed treatment for mange, or like one person I heard of who wanted to get rid of the dog because it didn't match the new couch. They are, as some people put it, "fur babies" to me basically. I would never go to those places.
And I don't think most people do go to those places with adopted dogs, so why would they with adopted humans?
I don’t think anyone is talking about something as shallow as whether an adopted child will match their interior design scheme.
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Originally Posted by mordant
If you are having children, whether naturally or by adoption, for the right reasons, everything else follows from that.
It’s really not as simple as that. I know that my wife and I are wonderful parents to our beautiful little boy. I’m not suggesting it would be night-and-day if we adopted another child, but that mental hang-up would be lurking in the background. Kids pick up on that sort of thing. Every child deserves to be loved as if they are their parents’ “own.”
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Originally Posted by mordant
To my mind, QB's bigger question is whether to have more than 2 kids, as whether they are hers or adopted doesn't strike me as a valid input into the decision.
It’s just one aspect of the decision, but it’s not one that should be overlooked because some find that kind of honest introspection to be socially unacceptable.
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Originally Posted by mordant
It's kind of a separate issue, as in, "I want 3 kids but not another C-section", or, "I'd rather have the hassle of jumping through the adoption hoops and maybe having some intrusive case worker hovering over me for awhile, than another baby of my own".
A separate issue is still an issue. If QB jumps back in and says it’s not a concern, then that’s wonderful, and there’s no need to belabor the point any longer.
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Originally Posted by mordant
Apart from all that everyone seems to agree, both spouses must be 100% without reservations about this, but it seems to me that the fear that you can't / won't love a child simply because it's adopted probably seems more real / big than it actually turns out to be. It is just an attempt to hang onto a preferred narrative arc, really.
And this is why people feel pressure to adopt when they may not be good candidates as adoptive parents, and the children suffer as a result. It’s far better to err on the side of not adopting, due to a fear that could very well prove imagined, than take the plunge despite clear misgivings and then feel guilt (and create strife) over such a big decision.
Granted, I speak from the perspective of someone who has had no issues conceiving children, and I might be more willing to take the leap if we encountered significant fertility issues. But I know myself pretty well, and while it’s possible we might be willing to give something like IVF a try, I just don’t think adoption would be right for us.
Last edited by ElijahAstin; 12-21-2022 at 05:44 PM..
I think what QB also has to take into consideration is that she has two BABIES at home, less than two years apart, one still an infant, one barely a toddler.
What does she see when she thinks of adoption? An older child, special needs? Because that is likely all that is available to her. Waits for healthy white infants are upwards of seven years, and yes, I am pretty sure that QB and her husband are white, and a couple who cannot produce their own children may take preference. Agencies are reluctant to place non-white children into white homes, especially in areas where they will see few others who look like them. Not sure if that is the case here, of course
Will you have the time and energy to give to a special needs or even simply an older child who may have had past trauma to deal with? And as ugly as the thought may be, you want to make sure your small boys are safe when you introduce an older child into the home.
You are only 21 years old yourself. Don't bite off more than you can chew. I know you have faith, and so maybe just wait, and if a child in need of a home crosses your path in some way, maybe it will be meant to be.
I think what QB also has to take into considerationnis that she has two BABIES at home, less than two years apart, one still an infant, one barely a toddler.
What does she see when she thinks of adoption? An older child, special needs? Because that is likely all that is available to her. Waits for healthy white infants are upwards of seven years, and yes, I am pretty sure that QB and her husband are white, and a couple who cannot produce their own children may take preference. Agencies are reluctant to place non-white children into white homes, especially in areas where they will see few others who look like them. Not sure if that is the case here, of course
Will you have the time and energy to give to a special needs or even simply an older child who may have had past trauma to deal with? And as ugly as the thought may be, you want to make sure your small boys are safe when you introduce an older child into the home.
You are only 21 years old yourself. Don't bite off more than you can chew. I know you have faith, a
So maybe just wait, and if a child in need of a home crosses your path in some way, maybe it will be meant to be.
I think what QB also has to take into consideration is that she has two BABIES at home, less than two years apart, one still an infant, one barely a toddler.
What does she see when she thinks of adoption? An older child, special needs? Because that is likely all that is available to her. Waits for healthy white infants are upwards of seven years, and yes, I am pretty sure that QB and her husband are white, and a couple who cannot produce their own children may take preference. Agencies are reluctant to place non-white children into white homes, especially in areas where they will see few others who look like them. Not sure if that is the case here, of course
Will you have the time and energy to give to a special needs or even simply an older child who may have had past trauma to deal with? And as ugly as the thought may be, you want to make sure your small boys are safe when you introduce an older child into the home.
You are only 21 years old yourself. Don't bite off more than you can chew. I know you have faith, and so maybe just wait, and if a child in need of a home crosses your path in some way, maybe it will be meant to be.
Wise words.
My 1st wife and I were 19 when we married and 21 when our first child came. In retrospect, my wife's mental health issues aside, we simply did not know ourselves yet and I don't think we got the opportunity for that to happen organically. #2 came 7 years later, although I understand the impulse to have a built-in playmate.
The trend today is to marry in one's late 20's (last I saw the average was 28), much less have children. There are lots of sound reasons for this: the time and resources and energy required for higher education; the time it takes to get established in a career; the understanding that one's mind isn't fully wired up and mature until your mid 20's or so.
Given my history, I'm the last to judge QB for getting married and starting a family so young; indeed in some subcultures it's still encouraged. But just consider the practical burden of that, and what you have already foreclosed in the name of being a fully engaged and present parent. And then consider whether some pacing is in order, or, given the realities of the period of world history we are likely entering, whether two isn't sufficient and that is where you should focus your resources.
TBH I think my daughter had so many children because she so enjoyed birthing and raising young children. Like her mother before her though she has a tendency to lose interest in them as they approach adolescence / differentiation. She kept the pipeline full as long as she could manage, even at risk to her health due to a pregnancy-mediated heart condition. For some reason I could not get her to self-reflect on this and now she complains of being exhausted all the time, raising 2 toddlers and a 7 year old on the autism spectrum, while in her early 40s with a husband 15 years older who himself has some mental health issues. I just do not see this as having been thought through. So I recognize I am projecting my concerns onto QB and I understand her situation is likely VERY different. I just pass the experience on for what it is, or isn't, worth. But don't discount it entirely. QB is not omnipotent and it is VERY easy to overcommit one's future self to family obligations.
i don't get the whole "humbling C sections" thing.
i have no clue what that means.
I feel like a bit of a failure as a mom right from the start from not being able to have a natural birth...my mom is in heaven and she was the perfect mom so I want to do my best....and then I feel like I lost my attractiveness with the scaring too.
Thanks for your input on this thread.
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
And this not to offend you or being disrespectful to you but IMPO, this practice of talking and directly communicating to Jesus or God, is perhaps some sorta psychological disorder.
God does NOT directly talk to humans as per their time n schedule.
I am more talking about expectant waiting and messages in my heart during that time. I am not totally insane!
Thank you!
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
the other thought that comes to mind, is that the adopted child is going to be a high needs child, due to whatever trauma it has already experienced early in life, which led to it being put up for adoption in the first place. it is likely to have experienced abuse, violence, neglect, trauma, birth parents with addiction or incarceration. and the adopted child is likely to act out in the family. Are the adopting parents able to deal with that and do they have the stability and maturity to do so? Children who are adopted may have behavioral issues such as violent tantrums, oppositional behaviors, aggression, depression and anxiety. How comfortable are both parents with going to counseling and therapy?
Also, "Behavioral strategies used for biological children may not be appropriate for a child with a history of childhood trauma and adoption."
from article Behavioral and Emotional Issues in Adopted Children
Those are good things to ponder. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I think what QB also has to take into consideration is that she has two BABIES at home, less than two years apart, one still an infant, one barely a toddler.
What does she see when she thinks of adoption? An older child, special needs? Because that is likely all that is available to her. Waits for healthy white infants are upwards of seven years, and yes, I am pretty sure that QB and her husband are white, and a couple who cannot produce their own children may take preference. Agencies are reluctant to place non-white children into white homes, especially in areas where they will see few others who look like them. Not sure if that is the case here, of course
Will you have the time and energy to give to a special needs or even simply an older child who may have had past trauma to deal with? And as ugly as the thought may be, you want to make sure your small boys are safe when you introduce an older child into the home.
You are only 21 years old yourself. Don't bite off more than you can chew. I know you have faith, and so maybe just wait, and if a child in need of a home crosses your path in some way, maybe it will be meant to be.
I was thinking since the process could take years it may be a good idea to start the process now, especially as my husband is 33. I get that I am 21 and my two are still very young and that is a good point.
Maybe it would be better to help with some sort of a foster center if that falls through and my husband doesn't want to adopt.
Yes, we are both white, but I wouldn't love anyone less if we did adopt someone who wasn't white. Kind of sad that the race makes a difference to the adoption authorities to be honest. The school district we are in is I'd guess 90% white, but two of the districts we touch are 99% black and about 50% black...so there are diverse neighborhoods and stuff close by.
Thank you for your insights.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Tzaph is very wise and has given you good advice. The bold is the most important factor to consider, QuakerBaker. NOT your obviously generous and tender heart. The world will not be any less enriched by devoting your generous love to your current children and your other charitable activities.
I was starting this thread to get more thoughts before I approached my husband. He is very frugal so he can invest and he is paranoid about the economy so I guess that he will not like it from a financial standpoint. However, we are extremely well off and in a good position financially..I think he might sometimes sell his financial position well short.
I plan on bringing it up tonight...I'll dress up for it too to soften him up...put on his favorite dress, his favorite lipstick, my hair up . I know that I have young kids, but my understanding is that since it can take years to adopt it may be wise to start now...especially as he is older at 33. I am also going to convince him to take tomorrow off since he doesn't need to be commuting through the blizzard.
I feel like a bit of a failure as a mom right from the start from not being able to have a natural birth...my mom is in heaven and she was the perfect mom so I want to do my best....and then I feel like I lost my attractiveness with the scaring too.
Presumably, you had a C-section because your attending OB determined it was the safest method of delivery for both mother and baby. That is nothing to be ashamed of. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that a vaginal delivery entails extra-special lasting benefits (which I don’t think is true) the most important thing, bar none, is that you and your sons emerged from the experience happy and healthy and without lasting complications. I’m sure your husband doesn’t hold you in lesser regard because you have some scarring as a result.
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Originally Posted by QuakerBaker
Yes, we are both white, but I wouldn't love anyone less if we did adopt someone who wasn't white. Kind of sad that the race makes a difference to the adoption authorities to be honest. The school district we are in is I'd guess 90% white, but two of the districts we touch are 99% black and about 50% black...so there are diverse neighborhoods and stuff close by.
I think most people’s rationale is that they don’t want their child to be immediately identifiable as adopted. That’s not to say being adopted is or should be a stigma or that you should bristle at the idea that your adopted child immediately stands out from the rest of the family.
Being a successful interracial adoptive parent is no small undertaking. It’s not something you can’t or shouldn’t do, as long as you’re prepared to undertake the hard work of educating yourself on your adoptive child’s culture of origin and how to fulfill your duty, as white parents, to help your child(ren) of color navigate a white world. I have no doubt that if you’re up for the challenge, this is something you would take incredibly seriously.
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. I know that I have young kids, but my understanding is that since it can take years to adopt it may be wise to start now...especially as he is older at 33. I am also going to convince him to take tomorrow off since he doesn't need to be commuting through the blizzard.
