What Exactly Happened in the Garden of Eden (believe, Adam, heaven)

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Michael Way

Again you resort to making an absurd claim to explain away the fact that the Bible has a solid firmament over a flat earth. And your claim isn't even deserving of a rebuttal.

Well believe as you will but there is a dome called the ozone layer.

Do you also believe the ancient Hebrews believed the earth was square? After all scripture talks about the 4 corners of the earth.

I suppose a thousand years from now people are going to believe that people in our day actually believed it rain cats and dogs.

Sometimes mike you have to look beyond the expression to figure out what the expression is actually saying.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Michael Way

No, I am not taking the creation story in Psalm 74 any more literally than I take the creation story in Genesis literally. That is my point. But again, by your argument, that bit about God slaying a multi-headed dragon appeared first in the Bible and then was copied by the writer of the Baal Cycle. It wasn't. It appeared first in the Baal Cycle and scholars know this.

There is a big difference between what is historical and a song. Scripture says the genesis account is history and your saying it is not because someone wrote a song about it.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by pneuma

There is a big difference between what is historical and a song. Scripture says the genesis account is history and your saying it is not because someone wrote a song about it.

You just can't comprehend what I'm saying to you. The material in Psalm 74 was copied from the Baal Cycle.

And I don't care what you think the Bible says about the Genesis account. It didn't happen that way and science proves that it didn't happen. The events in the Genesis creation accounts, there are two of them, and contradict each other, are no more historical than the Psalm 74 creation account which has God slaying a multi-headed sea-serpent. But I think you have a need to believe that the Genesis accounts are historical or splat goes your faith.

I'm done with this for tonight.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Michael Way

You just can't comprehend what I'm saying to you. The material in Psalm 74 was copied from the Baal Cycle.

And I don't care what you think the Bible says about the Genesis account. It didn't happen that way and science proves that it didn't happen. The events in the Genesis creation accounts, there are two of them, and contradict each other, are no more historical than the Psalm 74 creation account which has God slaying a multi-headed sea-serpent. But I think you have a need to believe that the Genesis accounts are historical or splat goes your faith.

I'm done with this for tonight.

All that tells me is you do not understand the genesis account, which is very clear as you deny its history even though scripture says it is history.

So maybe it is actually you who does not comprehend

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Mike you are taking a song as literal. People write songs as a way of expression, it is not to be taken as literal or mythological.

Christians can't have it both ways. They can't say it's a valid history of the time, and then turn around and say it's mythological.

[mojo101]

God created Adam in his own image,therefore god is human.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Mike you are taking a song as literal. People write songs as a way of expression, it is not to be taken as literal or mythological.

Originally Posted by pneuma

There is a big difference between what is historical and a song. Scripture says the genesis account is history and your saying it is not because someone wrote a song about it.

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Christians can't have it both ways. They can't say it's a valid history of the time, and then turn around and say it's mythological.

I think you missed my point.
A song is not history and mike is saying because the song is not history then neither is the genesis creation account.

We have to look beyond the wording to see what the words are in reference to as I explained with the words it’s raining cats and dogs.

People of our day know when someone says that phrase all we are referring to is a very heavy rainfall.

And just like people of our day use such phrases so to did the ANE people.

So what then is psalms 74 actually talking about in reference to leviathan.

Mike is under the impression that it is a creation account yet when read in full it is obviously actually speaking of the exodus account and has nothing to do with creation.

Here are the verses in question

For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.
You divided the sea by your might; you broke the heads of the sea monsters on the waters. You crushed the heads of Leviathan; you gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness.”
(Psalm 74:12-14)

We can see that this is obviously in reference to the exodus as it speaks of salvation and the dividing of the sea.

So who or what is the leviathan?

Pharaoh and the Egyptian army.

Leviathan seems to be in reference to world powers of the day.

Now if this is true when we read in Babylonian text such as this.

When you slew the Leviathan, the fleeing serpent, [when] you finished off the twisted serpent, the powerful one of seven heads, the heavens were laid bare and languished.”
(KTU 1.5 lines 1-4)

And remember that they would use the same words of their day as we do then it becomes plain that it is not speaking of myths but speaking in reference to something else, it not really cats and dogs it just a very heavy rain, and in this case as well as what is said in palms 74 seems to be in reference to a world power.

[kjw47]

Originally Posted by mojo101

God created Adam in his own image,therefore god is human.

The image = the ability to love and reason.

[kjw47]

Originally Posted by Michael Way

You're contradicting your original statement in post 15 which was ''God had placed the angel who came to be known as satan and devil over the Garden( earth)''. That statement implies that the entire earth at the time of the fall was the Garden (earth).

But never mind. Maybe that wasn't the meaning you meant to convey.

No it doesnt imply that the whole earth was an Eden at that point. The whole earth was there at that point.

[kjw47]

Originally Posted by Michael Way

Again you resort to making an absurd claim to explain away the fact that the Bible has a solid firmament over a flat earth. And your claim isn't even deserving of a rebuttal.

The OT bible writers called the earth a circle( sphere)