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As with all fables it communicates timeless principles. Unfortunately, Eden has been misinterpreted as disobedience. But it was about eliminating ignorance of Good and Evil or right and wrong. That is why God said, "now they have become one of us knowing good and evil and maybe they can achieve eternal life. Unfortunately, that also was misinterpreted as a concern of God who supposedly put flaming swords to prevent it. God did not want us to avoid knowing about Good and Evil! That is what we are supposed to learn and to prefer Good over Evil!!!
Considering that so many religionists like to point to their overwhelming numbers, let's use numbers now.
You are saying the opposite of what tens of thousands of ministers and priests have taught. Why should we believe you?
As with all fables it communicates timeless principles. Unfortunately, Eden has been misinterpreted as disobedience. But it was about eliminating ignorance of Good and Evil or right and wrong. That is why God said, "now they have become one of us knowing good and evil and maybe they can achieve eternal life. Unfortunately, that also was misinterpreted as a concern of God who supposedly put flaming swords to prevent it. God did not want us to avoid knowing about Good and Evil! That is what we are supposed to learn and to prefer Good over Evil!!!
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Originally Posted by phetaroi
Considering that so many religionists like to point to their overwhelming numbers, let's use numbers now.
You are saying the opposite of what tens of thousands of ministers and priests have taught. Why should we believe you?
You shouldn't. That has been the problem with religions all along. Believing someone else who claims authority to know better than you. Just THINK! Why on earth would an Almighty God get upset that His NEWLY CREATED children disobeyed His instructions when they did NOT even know the difference between Good and Evil or right and wrong? Any expectations that they would know it was wrong to do that is absurd.
Besides, the whole point of the instruction was to set up the opportunity to TEACH them the difference between Good and Evil or right and wrong! Our young children misinterpret our similar early instructions as commands they must obey for obedience's sake. But they have a higher purpose - to teach them - NOT to make them obedient slaves or pets to our superior "Parenthood" (Godliness)!
The Bible should be seen as chronicling our species' spiritual birth, early childhood, toddlerhood, preteens, adolescence, early adulthood, etc.. You need not see it the way that I do, but I have no doubt about it whatsoever having encountered the True Nature of God. It is the most reasonable interpretation compared to the stupid wrathful and vengeful God cursing our progenitors and their descendants in perpetuity until He can have their descendants punish His own Son (as Himself) to appease His own wrath and vengeance enough to forgive us for that unforgivable first offense!!! Get a clue, Phet.
No. You specifically said in post 15 that ''God had placed the angel who came to be known as satan and devil over the Garden( earth).'' In other words you were saying that the 'garden' at that time was the entire earth. To which I replied that if the whole earth was Eden, then God kicked Adam and Eve off the earth.
It's just a story anyway and didn't happen.
The whole earth wasnt Eden, only the Garden they were living in. God told them to subdue the whole earth, meaning to turn it all into an Eden.
The whole earth wasnt Eden, only the Garden they were living in. God told them to subdue the whole earth, meaning to turn it all into an Eden.
You're contradicting your original statement in post 15 which was ''God had placed the angel who came to be known as satan and devil over the Garden( earth)''. That statement implies that the entire earth at the time of the fall was the Garden (earth).
But never mind. Maybe that wasn't the meaning you meant to convey.
The destruction of Ugarit can be accurately dated to around 1200 BC, which means that these tablets, and the ideas they convey, were around earlier than most of the books of the Hebrew Bible.
Again how does that prove anything? Scripture at least in oral tradition was around a long time before 1200 BC.
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It is well known that the creation and flood stories of the other ancient Near East peoples are older than the creation and flood stories of the Bible. And in like manner, the epitaph of Baal as the 'cloud rider' is found in the Baal Cycle which is older than most of the books of the Bible.
Again that cannot be proven, it is just an educated quess based on the age of some documents they found that happen to be older then most books of the bible.
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And yes, much of the Bible cannot be understood apart from a knowledge of its ancient Near East culture. We've been over this before and you will not accept it because of your views and ideas about the Bible.
I have much more respect for the scholarship than you do
I have no problem with culture and understanding it that way. However your scholars are imputing pagan myths into the scriptures. In other words scripture is made up in part via pagan myths. What they also are doing is saying that because the Babylonians believed such and such everyone who lived in those days believed the same thing.
It would be like 3000 years from now if most all the records have been lost and someone found some writings of the flat earthers and claimed everyone in our day believed the earth was flat.
And this is exactly what your scholars are saying.
And just because I disagree with your scholars does not mean I have a low opinion of scholars, it means I have a low opinion of what your scholars are saying.
Again how does that prove anything? Scripture at least in oral tradition was around a long time before 1200 BC.
Again that cannot be proven, it is just an educated quess based on the age of some documents they found that happen to be older then most books of the bible.
I have no problem with culture and understanding it that way. However your scholars are imputing pagan myths into the scriptures. In other words scripture is made up in part via pagan myths. What they also are doing is saying that because the Babylonians believed such and such everyone who lived in those days believed the same thing.
It would be like 3000 years from now if most all the records have been lost and someone found some writings of the flat earthers and claimed everyone in our day believed the earth was flat.
And this is exactly what your scholars are saying.
And just because I disagree with your scholars does not mean I have a low opinion of scholars, it means I have a low opinion of what your scholars are saying.
By your argument, the Biblical writer of Psalm 74 had God slaying a multi-headed sea serpent during creation which the writer of the Ugaritic 'Baal Cycle' then copied. Really? It was the other way around.
Again you resort to making an absurd claim to explain away the fact that the Bible has a solid firmament over a flat earth. And your claim isn't even deserving of a rebuttal.
By your argument, the Biblical writer of Psalm 74 had God slaying a multi-headed sea serpent during creation which the writer of the Ugaritic 'Baal Cycle' then copied. Really? It was the other way around.
Mike you are taking a song as literal. People write songs as a way of expression, it is not to be taken as literal or mythological.
Mike you are taking a song as literal. People write songs as a way of expression, it is not to be taken as literal or mythological.
No, I am not taking the creation story in Psalm 74 any more literally than I take the creation story in Genesis literally. That is my point. But again, by your argument, that bit about God slaying a multi-headed dragon appeared first in the Bible and then was copied by the writer of the Baal Cycle. It wasn't. It appeared first in the Baal Cycle and scholars know this.
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