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Very true. But I do admire the church for officially apologizing...not an easy thing to do. But at the same time, the apology does no good for those who suffered back then.
There are more than a few ways to look at systemic problems that any large organization might find within their ranks and no doubt some religious organizations, like the Catholic church, has had some doozies...
There are those kinds of problems, and of course "people behaving badly" is not just a religious problem. The problems I am also critical about, if not more so, are the official policies and/or influences that churches exert which cause significant negative problems for far too many people. Policies about birth control. Even the use of condoms, for example. (Let alone that other form of birth control not to be commented about here). Attitudes and restrictions imposed on gay people. Just for starters...
Does it matter how many people are doing good while too much wrong-doing is going on at the same time?
Perhaps this is also why people are more inclined to be critical about what deserves criticism, because there is plenty of good that can come from changing wrong-thinking. Countering wrong-doing. It's just not good enough to point out the good and ignore, dismiss or understate the bad, about anything! Not when people are being harmed anyway. In any way.
On the other hand, Jehovah’s Witnesses talk about only 144,000 people will go to a special place after they die.
But this opening statement doesn't provide a "balance."
Why not also indicate that JWs believe the earth will be transformed into a paradise and that an untold number of JWs and non JWs will be resurrected to a transformed earth?
The Bible does indicate 144000 go to heaven but it also indicates there is a hope for both the "righteous and unrighteous" and that is the resurrection.
Religion can transform lives for the better or worse. I would offer the beatitudes and fruitage of the spirit as examples of religious thought that everyone can benefit from. See Matthew 5:3-9 and Galatians 5:22-23
But this opening statement doesn't provide a "balance."
Why not also indicate that JWs believe the earth will be transformed into a paradise and that an untold number of JWs and non JWs will be resurrected to a transformed earth?
The Bible does indicate 144000 go to heaven but it also indicates there is a hope for both the "righteous and unrighteous" and that is the resurrection.
Religion can transform lives for the better or worse. I would offer the beatitudes and fruitage of the spirit as examples of religious thought that everyone can benefit from. See Matthew 5:3-9 and Galatians 5:22-23
I didn't say that each individual poster had to provide a balance.
I started this thread because another thread ONLY ALLOWED positives about religion. There are two sides to the coin.
I didn't say that each individual poster had to provide a balance.
I started this thread because another thread ONLY ALLOWED positives about religion. There are two sides to the coin.
Nothing is "perfect" or free from "fault".
What is "good/right" or "bad/wrong" is mostly subjective anyway.
There are things some think are fine to do...that others think are the height of evil.
Religion is typically based in loving each other, helping the needy, being "good", being honest, showing honor & respect to others, and striving toward what is "fine". It accentuates the avoidance of "wrongdoing".
And in my view...only the most miserable & imperious would be critical of Religion & the Religious, in general.
Nothing is "perfect" or free from "fault".
What is "good/right" or "bad/wrong" is mostly subjective anyway.
There are things some think are fine to do...that others think are the height of evil.
Religion is typically based in loving each other, helping the needy, being "good", being honest, showing honor & respect to others, and striving toward what is "fine". It accentuates the avoidance of "wrongdoing".
And in my view...only the most miserable & imperious would be critical of Religion & the Religious, in general.
The OP has clarified his own ignorance of the difference between thinking and doing in his post. He admits the ACTIONS that come because of religion are positive but the THINKING that is in people’s minds can be negative. While the individual is responsible for both, religion provides a structure to ACT in kindness, in charity, in compassion. Actions become habits, habits become character. This is the purpose of religion.
It seems to me atheism is like addiction to narcotics. Under its influence you lose discrimination and original thought. You cannot see, feel, or do anything without perceiving the world and people through its lense. It is a hellish state of being because it unnatural.
Nothing is "perfect" or free from "fault".
What is "good/right" or "bad/wrong" is mostly subjective anyway.
There are things some think are fine to do...that others think are the height of evil.
Religion is typically based in loving each other, helping the needy, being "good", being honest, showing honor & respect to others, and striving toward what is "fine". It accentuates the avoidance of "wrongdoing".
And in my view...only the most miserable & imperious would be critical of Religion & the Religious, in general.
When we look at how people describe the god in the bible we really get a look at how that person sees the world around them.
That poster posts fit that to a tea. Anything they sees as "you said with such confidence I can't take anything you say seriously anymore." kind of thinking. It almost like they just don't like being told "No, you can't just do/think what you want without, at least, some evidence."
"some evidence" here means looking at both sides of the argument, not just your (or my) side.
In a very real way they think exactly like fundy theist.
The OP has clarified his own ignorance of the difference between thinking and doing in his post. He admits the ACTIONS that come because of religion are positive but the THINKING that is in people’s minds can be negative. While the individual is responsible for both, religion provides a structure to ACT in kindness, in charity, in compassion. Actions become habits, habits become character. This is the purpose of religion.
It seems to me atheism is like addiction to narcotics. Under its influence you lose discrimination and original thought. You cannot see, feel, or do anything without perceiving the world and people through its lense. It is a hellish state of being because it unnatural.
Not all atheism. We really have to apply the notion of "sects" to atheism also. Just as a reference point.
Most atheist understand that the belief in some thing more is just too far in a way more reliable than the reverse belief. Most atheist, when you sit down and just talk, understand that religions can motivate a group of people. And like with all organizations that get to big, many individuals get squashed uneccessarly.
Not all atheism. We really have to apply the notion of "sects" to atheism also. Just as a reference point.
Most atheist understand that the belief in some thing more is just too far in a way more reliable than the reverse belief. Most atheist, when you sit down and just talk, understand that religions can motivate a group of people. And like with all organizations that get to big, many individuals get squashed uneccessarly.
You maybe right, i will take your word for it.
I dont know many atheists, it does not come up unless they declare themselves to be. I only know only two who lost no opportunity to tell me so. One of them did not understand racism or how it operates in damaging lives. The rest of my opinion comes from those who operate in this space. Some of them are intelligent. Yet they seem to kind of hold their intelligence back in order to support their arguments.
You are right that in this respect they are exactly like fundy religionists.
You maybe right, i will take your word for it.
I dont know many atheists, it does not come up unless they declare themselves to be. I only know only two who lost no opportunity to tell me so. One of them did not understand racism or how it operates in damaging lives. The rest of my opinion comes from those who operate in this space. Some of them are intelligent. Yet they seem to kind of hold their intelligence back in order to support their arguments.
You are right that in this respect they are exactly like fundy religionists.
Never take my word for it. But ... these are not the average person cb. The average person is ok with believing in something more. It just matches what we see better. And they are ok with saying "but its not that deity". We are still atheist despite what the militant wants to.
But I think you know already. People are people first. List how you think a "rational religion-ist" would behave and express what they think. Then apply that list to a group of the same minded atheists.
Think about how people debate when they are scarred and angry.
Then list, in a table format,
how a theist would look expressing theism/atheism under those conditions.
how an atheist would look expressing theism/atheism under those conditions.
Do we see that playing out here? How would what we would call "rational person just seeking" look in-between the middle of those two "debating" each other? Does it match what we see here?
For a real time example:
What would you say about a person that would report any challenges to their belief system to the authorities? Would it matter that they are atheist or theist? Should I pretend its ok and rational even if we are both theist/atheist?
Last edited by Arach Angle; 06-18-2022 at 07:31 AM..
The OP has clarified his own ignorance of the difference between thinking and doing in his post. He admits the ACTIONS that come because of religion are positive but the THINKING that is in people’s minds can be negative. While the individual is responsible for both, religion provides a structure to ACT in kindness, in charity, in compassion. Actions become habits, habits become character. This is the purpose of religion.
It seems to me atheism is like addiction to narcotics. Under its influence you lose discrimination and original thought. You cannot see, feel, or do anything without perceiving the world and people through its lense. It is a hellish state of being because it unnatural.
The topic here is the balanced story of religion...not a particular poster. The topic here is the balanced story of religion...not an opportunity to insult the original poster.
You need to stay on topic...which is exactly what you tell us in other threads. And, then attempt to get our posts taken down.
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