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I didn't realize it was strictly or exclusively defined as "Christian."
Thank you for the insight.
I'm not sure it is exclusive to Christianity, but there are people actually officially labeled as "martyrs" in the Catholic Church and a few other denominations (Episcopal, at least.)
I was speaking of Jesus in his humanity, but of course in terms of his alleged deity as defined by the Church, the notion of sacrifice or cost is even more of a non-starter -- so thanks for pointing that out.
Given the assumptions that god exists, is great, and is nothing but love, yes, that is indeed remarkable. I wasn't a believer for nearly 40 years for nothing.
It's not a "non-starter". God being Infinite in Goodness and Majesty, no sacrifice that man could offer could ever possibly atone for our sins.
The only way that man could atone is if God did it for us. That's why God became a man, lived among us, and offered Himself up as a Sacrifice, acting as both Priest and Victim.
"The creature can offer nothing to the Creator that can be worthy of His acceptance".
The place you get the majority of the information about Jesus is The Bible.
Refer to that about the nature of the life & death of Jesus, relative to martyrdom...and as a comparision to the life/death of others in that same context.
Then you might gain enough understanding so you won't ever again interpret a comparision of the life/death of Jesus with others to be, "just need to do a magic number of good things and then being a martyr is a plus? Got it!
I wonder what the number is."
Good point. Any church I ever attended didn't actually refer to Jesus himself as a martyr, but to those who died subsequently for the Christian religion, particularly in the earlier centuries of the church.
As a matter of fact, out of curiosity I Googled "Jesus as martyr" when this thread first appeared, because I'd never heard the reference before, but saw that the term is indeed applied to Jesus by some.
That would be the guy that decided the people on North Sentinel Island needed Christianity. They shot him with arrows as soon as he hit the beach. They don't like visitors.
That would be the guy that decided the people on North Sentinel Island needed Christianity. They shot him with arrows as soon as he hit the beach. They don't like visitors.
It appears that they would have done the same to anyone...and had nothing to do with his ministry mission.
Sounds like excellent border security...all should adopt similar.
But those that say they are "glad he got killed" or similar, even think that it is funny...You reap what you sow, and, what goes around--comes around.
It's not a "non-starter". God being Infinite in Goodness and Majesty, no sacrifice that man could offer could ever possibly atone for our sins.
The only way that man could atone is if God did it for us. That's why God became a man, lived among us, and offered Himself up as a Sacrifice, acting as both Priest and Victim.
"The creature can offer nothing to the Creator that can be worthy of His acceptance".
Only God is worthy of God.
You are on about something that we aren't discussing.
I did not suggest that creatures have anything to offer a creator.
I said that what Jesus did, whatever you may think of its admirability, was not a sacrifice. It represented no net cost to him whatsoever, as a man -- and, as you yourself pointed out, certainly not as a god.
Now sacrifice in the sense I meant it was referring to any actual cost to Jesus, either personally (as human) or professionally (as god). I was not referring to the theological concept of a sacrificial system wherein Jesus is a human scapegoat. In that sense, he can be seen in the role of a sacrificial "lamb of god". I don't deny that, although I see that whole concept as somewhere between primitive and silly. But I'm not arguing that point.
I just cannot think of anything Jesus actually gave up on a net, permanent basis. He died, but was resurrected. He suffered, but that was short-term and it ended. God turned away from him, but now he's at god's right hand. In that sense I don't see what it actually cost him. I'm not discussing its importance or efficacy.
It appears that they would have done the same to anyone...and had nothing to do with his ministry mission.
Sounds like excellent border security...all should adopt similar.
But those that say they are "glad he got killed" or similar, even think that it is funny...You reap what you sow, and, what goes around--comes around.
I must have missed it. In what post # did someone say they were "glad he got killed"?
I must have missed it. In what post # did someone say they were "glad he got killed"?
Click on the link provided in mensaguy's post to a specific thread by thrillobyte (that figures) about this. Post #3 he writes to that effect.
He even admits the sentiment is "heartless"...but that seems to be a admired trait around here...so...
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