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I guess it would depend on how one understands predestination. If it is understood in the traditional view then it is not compatible with free will.
People tend to believe predestination is an individual thing, thinking God predestinates each individual life from eternity past. This is the view that is simply not compatible with us having a free will choice and is why some hold to there either being no such thing as predestination or no such thing as there being no such thing as free will choice.
However predestination is not an individual thing it is a collective thing.
God predestinated the church or the body of Christ, he did not predestinate each individual in that church or body, one has to make the free will choice to join themselves to the church or body.
God will have a church or body of Christ as this has been predestined, it is each individuals choice whether they want to be a part of that which has been predestinated.
O.k. so you must join a church to be off the hook and unaccountable for your own actions because everything you do as a church member will be predestined because you are part of a church organization.
I'm probably not understanding you correctly, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. Just looking for clarification.
I guess it would depend on how one understands predestination. If it is understood in the traditional view then it is not compatible with free will.
People tend to believe predestination is an individual thing, thinking God predestinates each individual life from eternity past. This is the view that is simply not compatible with us having a free will choice and is why some hold to there either being no such thing as predestination or no such thing as there being no such thing as free will choice.
However predestination is not an individual thing it is a collective thing.
God predestinated the church or the body of Christ, he did not predestinate each individual in that church or body, one has to make the free will choice to join themselves to the church or body.
God will have a church or body of Christ as this has been predestined, it is each individuals choice whether they want to be a part of that which has been predestinated.
That's more people. You realize that, right?
How does God not predestine people, but then predestines a GROUP of people? If he cant' control a single person, he can't control a group of single people.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Was crucifying Jesus, the Son of God, a sin? You better say yes. Well, God determined beforehand that it would be done.
Is erring from God's ways sin? Again, of course. Yet, note Isa 63:17:
O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
A few more examples:
2 Samuel 24:1: And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Joshua 11:20: For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses.
Psalm 105:25: He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants.
eek, you do realize that the one who hires a hit man is just as guilty as the hit man for what the hit man does.
in other words according to your understanding not only does God predestinate sin God is a sinner.
How is God going to judge anyone for sin if He is the one responsible for them sinning?
only one scripture above is concerning predestination ( the rest are just scriptures you think are in relation to predestination, but they are not) so I will only address that scripture.
Acts 4:27-28 is a quote from Psalms 2:1
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us
The way you read those scriptures is you believe that it is Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, that were predestined.
But is that what the scriptures are actually saying?
I read it that the predestination is in reference to Christ and should be read this way.
For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, (for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done,) both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and people of Israel, were gathered together.
which matches up with Ps. 2:1
Adam Clark goes into more detail here.
Quote:
Verse 26. Against the Lord and against his Christ.] kata tou cristou autou should be translated, against his ANOINTED, because it particularly agrees with on ecrisav, whom thou hast ANOINTED, in the succeeding verse.
Verse 27. There is a parenthesis in this verse that is not sufficiently noticed: it should be read in connection with chap. iv. 28, thus: For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, (for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done,) both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and people of Israel, were gathered together.
It is evident that what God's hand and counsel determined before to be done was not that which Herod, Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles, (Romans,) and the people of Israel had done and were doing; for, then, their rage and vain counsel would be such as God himself had determined should take place, which is both impious and absurd; but these gathered together to hinder what God had before determined that his Christ or Anointed should perform; and thus the passage is undoubtedly to be understood.
God through Christ was healing the broken hearted, doing many signs and wonders unheard of before, and for Jealousy of these thing Jesus was given up to Herod and the boys in order to stop Jesus from doing what God had foreordained that He should do.
Which was
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
This was done because many were believing in Him because of the signs and wonders and this the Jews would not allow.
predestination is only used in scripture in reference to Christ and us in Christ
Nowhere does Scripture suggest that God endorses or makes you sin. Sin is a corruption of his will.
That said, nothing happens outside of his will and his express permission. He knows who we are and he works all things according to his will.
that is a plain contradiction, you can't have it both ways.
And you seem to be under the impression that Gods will is being done in the earth, yet Jesus taught us to pray thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, which would be a redundant prayer if Gods will was already being done on the earth.
The alternative is to think that the God of the Universe is entirely beholden to the will of his creation. As if he just got lucky that Jesus was born, and Mary said yes when the angel said she'd have a son.
Read Scripture. Did God give Daniel a choice? Joseph? Nebuchadnezzar? Paul? Peter?
the potter does indeed respond to the movement of the clay.
everyone has a choice BF even Jesus did, but he refused to do his own will for the Fathers will.
No one chooses who they want to fall in love with - that spark is either there or it isn't. You can't make yourself fall in love. Some people try to claim they've "learned to love" a spouse they've been married to for a long time - but I believe that's more psychological addiction rather than love.
Not sure I agree with this one.
We have a teaching in Buddhism about being careful to select the people we associate with. And I don't why that can't be a goal that a person has in romantic relationships, as well. I can think back to 1 particular relationship where there was definitely an attraction, but if I had been wise I would have made a different decision. It seems to me that yes, you can't make yourself fall in love, but you can still resist associating with someone you are attracted to...if you have any willpower.
It's sort of like that leftover piece of chocolate cake sitting on the counter. You can give in, or resist.
O.k. so you must join a church to be off the hook and unaccountable for your own actions because everything you do as a church member will be predestined because you are part of a church organization.
I'm probably not understanding you correctly, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. Just looking for clarification.
I am not speaking of joining a church, I am speaking of the many membered body of Christ, which is the church. When one is joined to Christ one is predestined to life.
How does God not predestine people, but then predestines a GROUP of people? If he cant' control a single person, he can't control a group of single people.
you do realize that Jesus is the head of the body of Christ right? You being a Calvinist should understand that all who are in Christ are predestined to life, yet for whatever reason you cannot see what I am saying.
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