The key to getting along is... (different, church, quote, faith)
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Scripture is a mirror which reflects back to a person what is in their own heart. If a person [anyone generic] sees something barbaric or angry, then that is what is in their heart.
It is a mirror that reflects a person back at himself.
Proverbs 27:19 "As in water, face to face, so, too, is the heart of one to another"
paraphrased from daqq, "It is much like a mirror: each person reveals what is in his or her own heart by what each one "sees" when reading the Living Oracles of the Word. One comes away seeing an angry or barbaric God because that is what is in the heart. Another sees something totally different depending on what is reflected from within the heart."
it has been called a potion of life or an elixir of destruction. that is determined by what a person holds in their heart, and how they read and use the scripture.
It sounds to me like someone wants to define any sort of critique of scripture, spiritual matters, or god as pure projection. Sort of a built-in ad hominem argument going on there. You're not considering the possibility that if someone observes that something in Holy Writ is barbaric, it's because it IS.
When I observe the Christian scriptures, I *do* see lovely sentiments and prose. As a youth I memorized the so-called "love chapter" (I Cor 13) for example, and still have a very high regard for it. Some of the psalms are quite beautiful and Ecclesiastes and Job are in many ways brutally and admirably honest. Just to name a few examples.
But I also see logical contradictions and fallacies, the promotion of (dare I say it?!) barbaric practices like being a "good" slave owner such as by tempering how you beat them so that they don't die immediately. I see commands that women should keep silent in church, god commanding the slaughter of women and children on a number of occasions, and a host of other such things that even many puny humans have managed to learn better than to do. Sometimes, the scriptures lead from behind when it comes to ethical stances and moral imperatives. Sometimes, not so much (e.g., the aforementioned treatise on love as the greatest of the virtues).
What's there is there and ought to be discussable. Your attempt to shut down discussion with this kind of gaslighting of other's motives, is unseemly. But unfortunately, all too common in the realms of religious faith.
What's there is there and ought to be discussable. Your attempt to shut down discussion with this kind of gaslighting of other's motives, is unseemly. But unfortunately, all too common in the realms of religious faith.
And that particular poster's now-well-known MO.
But all zealots are blind to their own logs, whilst espying specks in everybody else's eyes.
What does your heart say when the scripture describes a god ordering pregnant women to be disemboweled and babies to have their heads bashed against bricks?
your post
your thoughts
your focus
your preoccupation
pre·oc·cu·pa·tion
noun
the state or condition of being preoccupied or engrossed with something
a subject or matter that engrosses someone
your post
your thoughts
your focus
your preoccupation
pre·oc·cu·pa·tion
noun
the state or condition of being preoccupied or engrossed with something
a subject or matter that engrosses someone
Noticing something that's objectively just THERE is not the same as being preoccupied. Why are you preoccupied with the parts YOU like? Why do you ignore the parts you don't like?
If god commands infants to have their heads dashed in, then that is not taboo to discuss, or to have a view concerning. And noticing it and having a view concerning it is not evidence that the person thinks about it all the time.
It IS evidence, though, that some folks just refuse to address certain points that they'd rather not address.
It sounds to me like someone wants to define any sort of critique of scripture, spiritual matters, or god as pure projection. Sort of a built-in ad hominem argument going on there. You're not considering the possibility that if someone observes that something in Holy Writ is barbaric, it's because it IS.
When I observe the Christian scriptures, I *do* see lovely sentiments and prose. As a youth I memorized the so-called "love chapter" (I Cor 13) for example, and still have a very high regard for it. Some of the psalms are quite beautiful and Ecclesiastes and Job are in many ways brutally and admirably honest. Just to name a few examples.
But I also see logical contradictions and fallacies, the promotion of (dare I say it?!) barbaric practices like being a "good" slave owner such as by tempering how you beat them so that they don't die immediately. I see commands that women should keep silent in church, god commanding the slaughter of women and children on a number of occasions, and a host of other such things that even many puny humans have managed to learn better than to do. Sometimes, the scriptures lead from behind when it comes to ethical stances and moral imperatives. Sometimes, not so much (e.g., the aforementioned treatise on love as the greatest of the virtues).
What's there is there and ought to be discussable. Your attempt to shut down discussion with this kind of gaslighting of other's motives, is unseemly. But unfortunately, all too common in the realms of religious faith.
its not an attack on anyone to discuss how scripture works.
this is the religion and spirituality forum.
a person is led in the way he wants to go.
regarding what is in our sphere of awareness, we are responsible for how we respond to it and react to it.
we are asked to take responsibility for our every thought, speech, action, and feelings.
if something bothers you, then find different reading material.
wherever your thoughts go, there you are. (that is also scripture.)
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-31-2017 at 09:04 PM..
What does your heart say when the scripture describes a god ordering pregnant women to be disemboweled and babies to have their heads bashed against bricks?
Where's that? When I started reading the Bible (from the start) I didn't get that far in before I found things too messed up to want to continue.
its not an attack on anyone to discuss how scripture works.
this is the religion and spirituality forum.
a person is led in the way he wants to go.
a person is responsible for everything in our sphere of awareness, and we are responsible for how we respond to it and react to it.
You specifically forbid anyone seeing anything barbaric in scripture on pain of being judged by you to be a barbarian themselves.
Sounds rather hostile to me. Certainly passive aggressive. But I suppose that's just your cue to call me hostile and passive-aggressive.
In my town, the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians trade off running an excellent no-strings-attached free food kitchen, better than many restaurants, for the local homeless, and leave the food pantry duties to the Salvation Army congregation, rather than "compete" with one of their own. This is sensible shared community commitment.
If I wanted to (I don't) I could take communion at the Episcopalian church even though I'm an atheist, as the only requirement is having been baptized by some Christian church at some point in your life. In fact, you only have to CLAIM to have been; I don't know how they would check it out.
Fundamentalists both don't understand and aren't comfortable with this kind of thing because they are way more about BEING right than DOING right. But I am coming to rather like the notion that I could volunteer in the food kitchen without a game of Twenty Questions -- of having the focus on my integrity, motivation and character rather than on my theology or lack thereof. Or to have a particular quid pro quo expected, like sitting through their weekly liturgical extravaganza.
I'm right there with you. I've never felt like an outsider when I volunteer in my local church, even though we believe different things. You don't need to be of a particular religion to scoop a bowl of soup, and I've made it clear that if they have a problem with my faith, I'll be happy to let someone else serve them so they'll be comfortable.
Faith shouldn't be a competition. We shouldn't be trying to 'out-holy' each other, particularly when people are in need and we're all in a position to help.
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