The key to getting along is... (churches, atheism, quote, Christianity)
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To follow up with my OP, one of my best friends is a conservative Baptist on the opposite side of political and religious spectrum than me (left leaning Unitarian Universalist). But we both share common core values and have a great deal of respect for each other. We're both comfortable in our beliefs and are tolerant enough to discuss our beliefs and we both learn from each other. One time we were on a trip discussing religion and politics and I asked "Wouldn't Jesus be for the wealthiest country in the world to provide healthcare to the poor?" He responded with what he believes and a Bible verse. Instead of trying to push buttons and prove who is right, we have compassion for each other, could tell where the discussion, so just left it at that and moved on. I can't stand who he voted for but know why he did (pro-life single issue) and we can joke about him being pro-Trump.
I'm grateful for him as he's added great value to my life.
I think that could reflect values of selflessness and integrity.
wow, two words that some it up nicely. selflessness and integrity.
If only the application of these was done with "pure intentions". really, I think we all are here at cd to stand against selfish application of selflessness and integrity. what a person believes would actually flush out if these were the base we all used. commonsense would point to love, compassion, and understanding and away from literal anything.
unfortunately, due to the probability nature of DNA and inputs from environment, it won't happen in its glorious fullness.
I for my side may say that most of the problems would disappear if theists would admit that they have no scrap of decent reason to believe in a god, but they believe on faith for various reasons.
That would remove half the problem.
If they would then accept that atheists have logical and evidence-backed reasons not to believe, then the other half would vanish.
Instead you pop up here effectively suggesting that we agree to some falsehood about us so as to keep things sweet.
I wish you would say Fundie more, TRANS...they want you to change.
I see NO reason for you to believe in anything invisible, psychic, mystical, magical, spiritual AT ALL!
I wouldn't even make you eat your Brussel sprouts if you didn't like them.
Seeing is believing. And this is the way your mind works ...nothing wrong with that..
you want solid proof, so?
Great, very reasonable, I'd say.
(And for a newbie, you never knew a bigger believer in God than me.)
And Jumbo, I didn't know you were an llUU, for short ...that's why we get along well.
Some faith communities have projects that are built around a common goal that people who have different theological viewpoints can participate in.
An example would be an interfaith food drive for people who have lost everything due to some catastrophic event occurring in their lives.
Arguing with someone about their theology being wrong doesn't hold much credibility or build trust if there are people right under the arguers' noses that are going to bed hungry. Working on something that is a common goal among people of varying theological first is a better way to express one's faith and outreach by doing, rather than trying to get someone in a religious/theological headlock before practicing what they preach (literally).
In my town, the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians trade off running an excellent no-strings-attached free food kitchen, better than many restaurants, for the local homeless, and leave the food pantry duties to the Salvation Army congregation, rather than "compete" with one of their own. This is sensible shared community commitment.
If I wanted to (I don't) I could take communion at the Episcopalian church even though I'm an atheist, as the only requirement is having been baptized by some Christian church at some point in your life. In fact, you only have to CLAIM to have been; I don't know how they would check it out.
Fundamentalists both don't understand and aren't comfortable with this kind of thing because they are way more about BEING right than DOING right. But I am coming to rather like the notion that I could volunteer in the food kitchen without a game of Twenty Questions -- of having the focus on my integrity, motivation and character rather than on my theology or lack thereof. Or to have a particular quid pro quo expected, like sitting through their weekly liturgical extravaganza.
In my London days I went to a few free or at least cheap places of various religious marque, and they were often remarkably good. Of course there was nearly always a lot of Hooks drifting around, but it's no problem to avoid them while swallowing the bait.
And Jumbo, I didn't know you were an llUU, for short ...that's why we get along well.
Being a UU helps enhance my values, but I think we get along so well not because I'm a UU, although how could anyone in the world not like UUs - some sarcasm there . But because we both try to be people of good character, seek to learn from others and not just provide our answers, and want to live a life of extreme joy and love.
In my London days I went to a few free or at least cheap places of various religious marque, and they were often remarkably good. Of course there was nearly always a lot of Hooks drifting around, but it's no problem to avoid them while swallowing the bait.
I will admit I've seen at least subtle Trolling for Jesus more often than not in such establishments, but the local one here was visited now and again by my late son, and I introduced him to it as a resource by taking him to his first meal there, and was impressed mightily by the total lack of agenda. The most you could say is they had to say grace for the meal, and it'd be petty to object to that. What they were really promoting was encouraging people to come as much as they needed to, and they had a really good job / training opportunities bulletin board and offered other services (theirs and others) to those in need.
This church has mentally challenged adults in the congregation, a variety of races and, particularly for a High Church outfit, a variety of socio-economic status. I think that has something to do with it, they've actually worked on what they should be, kindness and inclusiveness and diversity, practical good works, etc., rather than doctrinal purity.
Focussing more on values, and less on beliefs? Important values to me when it comes to religion are compassion and tolerance.
What would your top values be?
The key to getting along is to simply subscribe to the golden rule. Don't do anything to another that you would not want done to you. And, no, Jesus did not make this up. The golden rule existed long before Jesus.
The key to getting along is to simply subscribe to the golden rule. Don't do anything to another that you would not want done to you. And, no, Jesus did not make this up. The golden rule existed long before Jesus.
Well, what you quote is a passive version of Jesus' proactive maxim. "DO unto others as you would have others DO unto you." Of course this requires distinguishing between what those others want and what they would want if they actually knew what was in their best interests, so it ain't all that easy to follow....takes some empathy and thoughtfulness.
Well, what you quote is a passive version of Jesus' proactive maxim. "DO unto others as you would have others DO unto you." Of course this requires distinguishing between what those others want and what they would want if they actually knew what was in their best interests, so it ain't all that easy to follow....takes some empathy and thoughtfulness.
I have never found it difficult at all. If I wouldn't like having it done to me, I don't do it to others. It's pretty cut and dried. I don't "do unto others" first and wait for a reaction. If I wouldn't like it, I don't do it to anyone else. This does not suggest turning the other cheek. I have no problem with defending myself. But I would never start a fight.
I will admit I've seen at least subtle Trolling for Jesus more often than not in such establishments, but the local one here was visited now and again by my late son, and I introduced him to it as a resource by taking him to his first meal there, and was impressed mightily by the total lack of agenda. The most you could say is they had to say grace for the meal, and it'd be petty to object to that. What they were really promoting was encouraging people to come as much as they needed to, and they had a really good job / training opportunities bulletin board and offered other services (theirs and others) to those in need.
This church has mentally challenged adults in the congregation, a variety of races and, particularly for a High Church outfit, a variety of socio-economic status. I think that has something to do with it, they've actually worked on what they should be, kindness and inclusiveness and diversity, practical good works, etc., rather than doctrinal purity.
One's mileage, of course, can and will vary.
Saying "grace" would of course grate on me, but provided I wasn't obliged to join in (If I was, I would have to leave) I would be fine with their doing it within their own walls. And you raise one of the biggest shift in my views of recent years - the value of organized religion.
You may recall the De Botton proposal - to have the benefits of religion without the trappings. I already had the idea of believers still having religion with or without the trappings. There is room the religious and the irreligious (non trappings) God -believer. I don't altogether buy the argument that religion somehow is the only reason we have charities. I would argue that charity would do as well or batter in a secular -humanist society.
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And this is the way your mind works 
...nothing wrong with that..
...that's why we get along well.
. But because we both try to be people of good character, seek to learn from others and not just provide our answers, and want to live a life of extreme joy and love.
