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Some are, others arent.
From my experience, the more fundamentalist you are, the more secular you are. This may offend alot of ppl who think their faith is strong... but it isnt. Think about it, if youre in a state where youre all like "do not touch the sacred stone of..." nah, its just an object. Touch it or dont, there bigger things to worry about.
Certain muslims and christians are very very fundamentalist, and it shows with their irrational hatred towards those that hurt their book.
A spiritual person doesnt care if you did, as they seldom read the thing. They have a handle on their religion, and it doesnt need a book. Or a sacred this or that. They might still get mad if you burned their library cuz thats rude, but not all infidels must die mad.
Secular thinking. Fundies and atheists are basically almost the same, except one has a moral system and dogma.
It isnt just objects either. It's rules. "Sit here. Do this. Dont do that." Aside from murder and rape (because that crosses the threshold into harm, which is decidedly not enlightened), many of these rules do not actusally matter in the grand scheme of things. And even those can be forgiven. Let them go and walk away. The above mentioned groups? Big into rules, because they think the world we see matters.
I like, and agree with much of what you say.
Rules....wow, do the religious people have a lot of them. This is a sin, that's not, do this, don't do that, this offends god, that makes him happy.
I can't imagine hating someone because they diss your holy book. A holy book isn't needed to be spiritual and connect with the "powers that be" in the universe. You can call the powers that be "god" or "allah" or whatever you choose to, but I've just found those terms to be so loaded with baggage, it's difficult to get past the religious and into the spiritual using those terms in conversation or even in my own mind.
Everything you need or want, spiritually speaking, is already inside you, you needn't go "looking" for it outside of yourself. It doesn't just reside in a church/synagogue/mosque, in fact in my experience, if you're anything like me (some are....some aren't), that's the last place I'd look for it. Just living your life, you'll find messages/meaning/learning in literally everything you do if you wish to grow.
Spiritual things/thoughts/ideas/insights come to you softly, they don't shout. You need to be receptive to and ready to hear/feel them. The saying "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear" applies here. The louder the message is, the less likely it is to be something you can spiritually benefit from.
If you wish to grow spiritually, give your self time to let your mind wander from time to time. Put down your phone! Take a walk in the woods, visit a beautiful site, sit on the beach and watch a sunrise or sunset....do whatever it is that you truly enjoy. It's during those quiet times that you grow and the universe speaks to you in a helpful manner.
Last edited by jasper1372; 10-12-2016 at 10:28 AM..
By "spirituality" I understand mostly two things. First, the opposite of materialism, that is being less attached to the purely material things and putting a greater value on non-material ones: relationships, beauty, nature etc, having a sense of awe towards the world, a recognition of something greater than one's self. Second, a desire to attain greater knowledge and understanding, to grapple with the "big" questions. Do you think religious people are more likely to exhibit these two traits than atheists or agnostics?
The reason I am asking this question is one of the arguments in favor of religion I have come across lately: namely that without religion, without a sense of something greater than himself, man becomes entangled in purely materialistic life, in chasing after the next nice car, or house, or promotion. What are your thoughts on this argument?
During my lifetime of observing "religious" people, I find just the opposite to be true. "Religious" people are the least Spiritual people I have come across.
Religion stifles Spiritual growth and development. It teaches people what to think and how to live, which is the opposite of a person venturing out into world to attain greater knowledge and understanding of themselves and the world they live in, as well as the Universe that world exists in.
Often quite the opposite. It looks to me like many religious people are buying into "pre-packaged" spirituality so they do not have to do the deep thinking on deep questions. They seek a package where all the thinking has been done for them, and they can be informed what their narrative is and what it is they believe without having to do much working that out for themselves.
Well firstly I would point out that religious people appear to be no less interested in pursuing those things than atheists are. Quite the opposite quite often. So the hypothesis is false on the face of it and crashes before it even gets off the ground. It sounds like one of those navel gazing arguments that makes sense to people who think it up without stopping to look around at the real world and see if it maps onto it.
Secondly I would point out that atheists often DO have a "sense of things greater than themselves". It just does not tend to be unsubstantiated nonsense they simply made up on the spot, so much as very real things that do actually exist. And they are therefore just as capable of introspection on questions like what it means to be "human", what our place in this universe is and should be, and what meaning and goals we should derive in life.
In my opinion and speaking in generalities because each individual is different, I feel the more one leans religious the less they are spiritual, much like being a democrat or republican (not a great analogy).
It is my general belief that too many times the more religious one is, the more they are blinded and controlled by religion. With that, those people are less able to look inside themselves, and view the world around them from a perspective not clouded by the religious beliefs they follow.
I'm with myself 24/7 and I still surprise myself. But nobody knows me better than me, and being a good person isn't defined by a love of God or following religion. It's about being in sync with your surroundings which includes the people, the economy, everything that life has to offer. Many people use religion as a crutch to survive and believe that's what brings them happiness. Instead, to be spiritual IMO means doing YOUR best to understand your particular surroundings - yourself, your family, your finances, etc. To have a deeper meaning of life starts with having a deeper meaning of yourself judged only by yourself and not guided by religion.
In my opinion and speaking in generalities because each individual is different, I feel the more one leans religious the less they are spiritual, much like being a democrat or republican (not a great analogy).
It is my general belief that too many times the more religious one is, the more they are blinded and controlled by religion. With that, those people are less able to look inside themselves, and view the world around them from a perspective not clouded by the religious beliefs they follow.
I'm with myself 24/7 and I still surprise myself. But nobody knows me better than me, and being a good person isn't defined by a love of God or following religion. It's about being in sync with your surroundings which includes the people, the economy, everything that life has to offer. Many people use religion as a crutch to survive and believe that's what brings them happiness. Instead, to be spiritual IMO means doing YOUR best to understand your particular surroundings - yourself, your family, your finances, etc. To have a deeper meaning of life starts with having a deeper meaning of yourself judged only by yourself and not guided by religion.
I migt also touch on the idea of needing godfaith to appreciate the world we live in. There is this idea of an uncomprehending wonder vs. knowing about it. In music, there are those who say they prefer not to know about it as it may spoil the wonderment. There is an element of that, but I have found that my appreciation of (for example the VW 4th...yep, folks, I shall inflict it on you ..) is due pretty much to understanding how and why it was written.
It's the with the cosmos and nature. we and reverence is enhanced rather than dimmed by understanding much about it, rather than just not knowing or wanting to know and just saying "What God hath done is awesome".
And, yep, I was there. One thing I liked about the 4th was it drowned out the obbligato coughing.
That is a beautiful piece of music. By the way, today is Vaughan Williams' birthday.
Personally, I rather regret not knowing anything about classical music theory and thus about how my favorite music comes into existence. I intend to learn at least the basics some day. I think this is one field of knowledge where one's enjoyment increases together with one's expertise. Simply listening to beautiful melodies can be very nice, but actually understanding how the beauty is created is much, much better.
During my lifetime of observing "religious" people, I find just the opposite to be true. "Religious" people are the least Spiritual people I have come across.
Sorry if it sounds like another attempt at America-bashing (this is not my intention at all): I have found that particularly in the United States there exists a curious amalgamation of belief in Christ AND belief in unfettered capitalism and defense of private property at all costs. The latter is actually the opposite to Christ's teachings, and yet in the minds of the Religious Right the two somehow coexist.
That is a beautiful piece of music. By the way, today is Vaughan Williams' birthday.
Personally, I rather regret not knowing anything about classical music theory and thus about how my favorite music comes into existence. I intend to learn at least the basics some day. I think this is one field of knowledge where one's enjoyment increases together with one's expertise. Simply listening to beautiful melodies can be very nice, but actually understanding how the beauty is created is much, much better.
I forgot!! "...happy birthday dear Vedubbleyooo..."
Sorry if it sounds like another attempt at America-bashing (this is not my intention at all): I have found that particularly in the United States there exists a curious amalgamation of belief in Christ AND belief in unfettered capitalism and defense of private property at all costs. The latter is actually the opposite to Christ's teachings, and yet in the minds of the Religious Right the two somehow coexist.
Well you need to understand that the US is not full of clones who all think exactly alike.
I don't relate to any of the religious folks I come across here in the US as they all tend to be fundamentalist hypocrites.
I don't like to reduce people to generalities and stereotypes. But I will say that when I was religious and my social network was largely religious as well, I felt very alone with my concerns for environmental protection, the humane treatment of animals (including farm animals, not just cute furry pets), improving conditions for women and children. That's not to say that they didn't care... but more that the focus on the afterlife was a huge distraction from focusing on the quality of this life and this world.
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..) is due pretty much to understanding how and why it was written. 
"...happy birthday dear Vedubbleyooo..."
