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The fossil record and modern molecular biology contradict Darwin's branching "Tree of Life."
And is your assertion therefore that because you disbelieve the fact that evolution actually happens that this means that a god named Yahweh created the cosmos as recounted in The Book of Genesis? And that this should be taught to public school students?
Did you eat your Cheerios this morning? If so, you partook of evolutionary microbiology*.
Did you eat Chocolate Yogurt? If so, you can thank the principles of evolution for that*.
Have you ever had a tetanus shot? Then thanks to what we've learned in evolution, you are protected against serious disease.
Evolution and what we've learned from it are present in your everyday life. If evolution is false, then none of those examples above would work.
Evolution is a fact. The method of how it works, is the "Theory."
* Microbiologists - every single day - rely upon our discoveries of evolution to produce new foods and medicines. If you do not "believe" in evolution, then how the hell do you explain the advances that medicine and food science has offered you, evidenced by the products YOU BUY EVERY DAY? For example, did you know that chocolate and the enyzmes in yogurt are natural enemies? But, utilizing evolution to produce bacteria that are actually compatible with chocolate, we have successfully brought the two "enemies" together.
Without the knowledge of evolution, we would NEVER be able to combine these two flavors.
Multi-billion dollar corporations use evolution to sell you new "and improved" products every day. I doubt those companies would put so much Research & Development (R & D) into the science if it were not already proved to be valid. R & D produces hundreds of new products every month. Kraft, General Mills, Cargill, Diageo and a multitude of other corporations USE EVOLUTION in their science laboratories to create and manipulate new products.
My goodness, it's Effing-amazing the profound stupidity exhibited by some forum members here. Go ahead and believe whatever you want with regard to your conception of "god." But don't expect everyone in the World to adhere to your very naive world view, because it's pretty obvious that the locally-based Fortune 500 Companies don't!
Last edited by Astron1000; 03-13-2013 at 10:52 PM..
Now that's ironic. Took down three dead Aspen trees today...difficult for one man even with gaffs on to occupy a twig, much less two to occupy the same twig on any of them.
...ahem...'accept reality and the facts?' It's quite clear which version of reality Sans that many of you here on this forum accept as fact. Hey, I have no doubt that there is a varied amount of descent with modification in various living organisms, human or otherwise...but to claim that Darwin's theory accounts for the origin of new Syngameons (not species)...or for that matter, for every Syngameons since the first cells emerged from some assumed primordial ooze is idiotic.
The fossil record and modern molecular biology contradict Darwin's branching "Tree of Life."
I was going to reply to this, but Astron 1000 saved me the bother...Thank you Astron.
to claim that Darwin's theory accounts for the origin of new Syngameons (not species)...or for that matter, for every Syngameons since the first cells emerged from some assumed primordial ooze is idiotic.
The fossil record and modern molecular biology contradict Darwin's branching "Tree of Life."
Yup; you've got that right. Completely formed and functioning DNA-run cells did not just "poof!", emerge from "some primordial ooze" one afternoon. Your vast and purposeful obfuscation is too transparent, le.
What do you take us educated people for? Idiots, like the vast seething peonage of scientifically illiterate fundies who reliably flock to churches and obediently fall to their knees in supplication to a mythical God muddle? Or to that wooden-carved icon of the mythic Jesus icon? ("Thou shalt not bear witness to wooden... " oh well , what the heck, huh?) Hmmm...
As is typical of defiant & prevaricatious spiritual evasionists, you happily re-parrot whatever the masters tell you to, and since it also fits with your personal belief paradigm (after all, why could it not? What they preach and what you believe, are one and the same! Very conveniently circular, innitt?) and you, it turns out, would not be able to handle the truth if it up and bit you, now would you?
See, if you were to take even a basic biochemistry course, where all the rules and observable bio-molecular interactions that led to simple conjunctions out in that warm, energy-rich (solar, geothermal, radioactive, exogenic, etc. etc... too many for the church elders to even begin to comprehend, let alone accept...) primal pond can be easily demo'd in any high-school classroom.
And when literally tens of thousands of open-minded researchers around the globe hypothesized what might have happened and how, and then set up their experiments under the most rigorous of conditions, well durned if their results didn't confirm their suspicions, those gol-darned dangerous ideas, the ones that exactly supported what they'd suspected for many years, guided by Darwin's original & insightful concepts.
You know, dem dangnedly diabolical reasons Christians with closed minds all automatically clamp their brain neurons tightly shut, and then go into rote-hate [as well as Dr. Dawkins, Chris Hitchens, and all the others who lead with their minds and not their leather-bound bibles...] without even getting to know him!
After all, such thoughts are dangerous stuff, huh? "What if the children overhear? I mean it, Fred! You get any of his books or papers out of this house right this minute, you hear me? Down to the big Christian book-burning in the village square where they can be properly disposed of, right? And... we can all dance around the bonfire of the ignorant too!
God: cells and Syngameons all appearing, insta-poofy, right there at the researchers feet, after magically interacting into complex cells? Where Did you guys pull this sort of worm-drop-quality Creationist stuff?
Here it is, in v. short order: 1) chemicals interact to form more complex chemicals. Easily demo'd any time, anywhere. mix baking soda and Coca-Colaâ„¢ and stand back: new chemical compounds. Easy huh? So then
2) these new chemicals, given hundreds of millions of years to tinker with each other's electro-chemical bond-building abilities (It's really all quite fascinating stuff! You ought to read at lest a basic chemistry text, since all this stuff is so well explained... logical and everything!),
which then 3) formed up all sorts of functioning molecules, each of which then
4) lead to further merry chases, in turn
5) creating ever-more complex molecules until a few million conjugations resulted in, voila...
6) the basic building locks of simple functioning reproduction and a biochemical memory system (RNA, then it's grown-up kissing cousin, DNA!).
Undt zoh,
7)_ it was only a few short additional millions of productive years for "LIFE" as we, not you, define it, and then
8) Evolution took over. Evolution not being abiogenesis; that part had already happened, as I clearly explained above. But... did you understand it?
I hope so: it's quite disturbingly simple when you at least try to understand it! Even that Cambrian Explosion thingee you guys like to hang your instant organized "irreducible complexity" Creationist crap-hat on, all while ignoring that evenit took several tens of millions of years, and in reality was simply the result of a statistically unlikely but nonetheless occurrent conjunction of positive climatic and geological events.
So the entirety of it all, that relative outpouring of large numbers of exciting and quite complex new species, was simply a result of mathematical, statistical and biochemical serendipity. Hey: it happens all the time, and obviously, it did. The fossil DNA and chronological/geological evidence could not be more clear. And, to boot, without it's happening when it did, you and I would not be here!
Details, details, eh? Best to ignore or out-yell them, right, little elmer? Instead, your party claim, as it's written in that biblical science text, that it all happened in a mere 6 days, all to full completion, and by a wooden, incommunicative God who was, apparently, quite lonely, and wanted a bunch of arrogant egotistical humans running around declaring everything else that lived to be "lesser", while they over-bred their populations until that alone threatened to bring the planet's ecology to it's knees! (Note: *Watch for it coming to a major ecosystem soon!).
The Lord forgives you. it is time to change. The only outpouring in this Age of Aquarius will by the pouring out of mythology into the gutter. Only the Agnostic Spirit will awaken everyone to reality.
Hmmm, cultural and religious and philosophical 'evolution' and the Ages of the Zodiac
The Bull (Egyptian/Canaanite/Greek gods) > the Ram/lamb (Jewish God) > the Fish (Christ) > the Waterbearer of knowledge and freedom (free of religion at last?)
Yup; you've got that right. Completely formed and functioning DNA-run cells did not just "poof!", emerge from "some primordial ooze" one afternoon. Your vast and purposeful obfuscation is too transparent, le.
What do you take us educated people for? Idiots, like the vast seething peonage of scientifically illiterate fundies who reliably flock to churches and obediently fall to their knees in supplication to a mythical God muddle? Or to that wooden-carved icon of the mythic Jesus icon? ("Thou shalt not bear witness to wooden... " oh well , what the heck, huh?) Hmmm...
As is typical of defiant & prevaricatious spiritual evasionists, you happily re-parrot whatever the masters tell you to, and since it also fits with your personal belief paradigm (after all, why could it not? What they preach and what you believe, are one and the same! Very conveniently circular, innitt?) and you, it turns out, would not be able to handle the truth if it up and bit you, now would you?
See, if you were to take even a basic biochemistry course, where all the rules and observable bio-molecular interactions that led to simple conjunctions out in that warm, energy-rich (solar, geothermal, radioactive, exogenic, etc. etc... too many for the church elders to even begin to comprehend, let alone accept...) primal pond can be easily demo'd in any high-school classroom.
And when literally tens of thousands of open-minded researchers around the globe hypothesized what might have happened and how, and then set up their experiments under the most rigorous of conditions, well durned if their results didn't confirm their suspicions, those gol-darned dangerous ideas, the ones that exactly supported what they'd suspected for many years, guided by Darwin's original & insightful concepts.
You know, dem dangnedly diabolical reasons Christians with closed minds all automatically clamp their brain neurons tightly shut, and then go into rote-hate [as well as Dr. Dawkins, Chris Hitchens, and all the others who lead with their minds and not their leather-bound bibles...] without even getting to know him!
After all, such thoughts are dangerous stuff, huh? "What if the children overhear? I mean it, Fred! You get any of his books or papers out of this house right this minute, you hear me? Down to the big Christian book-burning in the village square where they can be properly disposed of, right? And... we can all dance around the bonfire of the ignorant too!
God: cells and Syngameons all appearing, insta-poofy, right there at the researchers feet, after magically interacting into complex cells? Where Did you guys pull this sort of worm-drop-quality Creationist stuff?
Here it is, in v. short order: 1) chemicals interact to form more complex chemicals. Easily demo'd any time, anywhere. mix baking soda and Coca-Colaâ„¢ and stand back: new chemical compounds. Easy huh? So then
2) these new chemicals, given hundreds of millions of years to tinker with each other's electro-chemical bond-building abilities (It's really all quite fascinating stuff! You ought to read at lest a basic chemistry text, since all this stuff is so well explained... logical and everything!),
which then 3) formed up all sorts of functioning molecules, each of which then
4) lead to further merry chases, in turn
5) creating ever-more complex molecules until a few million conjugations resulted in, voila...
6) the basic building locks of simple functioning reproduction and a biochemical memory system (RNA, then it's grown-up kissing cousin, DNA!).
Undt zoh,
7)_ it was only a few short additional millions of productive years for "LIFE" as we, not you, define it, and then
8) Evolution took over. Evolution not being abiogenesis; that part had already happened, as I clearly explained above. But... did you understand it?
I hope so: it's quite disturbingly simple when you at least try to understand it! Even that Cambrian Explosion thingee you guys like to hang your instant organized "irreducible complexity" Creationist crap-hat on, all while ignoring that evenit took several tens of millions of years, and in reality was simply the result of a statistically unlikely but nonetheless occurrent conjunction of positive climatic and geological events.
So the entirety of it all, that relative outpouring of large numbers of exciting and quite complex new species, was simply a result of mathematical, statistical and biochemical serendipity. Hey: it happens all the time, and obviously, it did. The fossil DNA and chronological/geological evidence could not be more clear. And, to boot, without it's happening when it did, you and I would not be here!
Details, details, eh? Best to ignore or out-yell them, right, little elmer? Instead, your party claim, as it's written in that biblical science text, that it all happened in a mere 6 days, all to full completion, and by a wooden, incommunicative God who was, apparently, quite lonely, and wanted a bunch of arrogant egotistical humans running around declaring everything else that lived to be "lesser", while they over-bred their populations until that alone threatened to bring the planet's ecology to it's knees! (Note: *Watch for it coming to a major ecosystem soon!).
Yeah, like THAT's so convincing, huh?
Now, now RM, haven't you heard...evolution is dead. Your naturalistic world view is every bit as subjective and faith-based as the creationist paradigm.
You erroneously assume the first place...that atheism is true. As a scientist trained to carry out research, you've apparently closed your eyes to any possibility that Yeshua is part of the equation. You have clearly demonstrated how far you're willing to go to preempt any possibility of letting a "Divine Foot" into the door of your heart.
There is scientific dessent from Darwinism that far exceeds in truth all of the naturalistic rhetoric your education can muster.
Nevertheless, I pray everthing is well with you...
Now, now RM, haven't you heard...evolution is dead. Your naturalistic world view is every bit as subjective and faith-based as the creationist paradigm.
You erroneously assume the first place...that atheism is true. As a scientist trained to carry out research, you've apparently closed your eyes to any possibility that Yeshua is part of the equation. You have clearly demonstrated how far you're willing to go to preempt any possibility of letting a "Divine Foot" into the door of your heart.
There is scientific dessent from Darwinism that far exceeds in truth all of the naturalistic rhetoric your education can muster.
Not only is there no evidence whatsoever for the existence of a god or gods, much less can anyone rationally claim that Yahweh is real and any or all other gods are fake. That's nonsense.
You obviously have no conception of how science actually works. Science proceeds from the observable. Gods are not observable, obviously. There is nohing from which any kind of scientific hypothesizing, theorizing or investigation can proceed.
But since you continue to post your biases and opinions on this thread without really knowing what you are talking about, I'll ask again the very simple, direct, honest question below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis
And is your assertion therefore that because you disbelieve the fact that evolution actually happens that this means that a god named Yahweh created the cosmos as recounted in The Book of Genesis? And that this should be taught to public school students?
Like I said in another sub-forum on this, if you want to teach creationism (which is really biased toward one single religion and is really not that cool IMHO), then at least have kids breeding fruit flies at the same time. Let them see for themselves how evolution takes place and make their own decisions.
Now, now RM, haven't you heard...evolution is dead. Your naturalistic world view is every bit as subjective and faith-based as the creationist paradigm.
You erroneously assume the first place...that atheism is true. As a scientist trained to carry out research, you've apparently closed your eyes to any possibility that Yeshua is part of the equation. You have clearly demonstrated how far you're willing to go to preempt any possibility of letting a "Divine Foot" into the door of your heart.
There is scientific dessent from Darwinism that far exceeds in truth all of the naturalistic rhetoric your education can muster.
Nevertheless, I pray everthing is well with you...
I have to say that the flowing elegance of your prose far outweighs the content.
The evidence for evolution is overwhelming - morphological divergencies, redundant anatomy, DNA markers, evolutionary change observed year to year; engineering changes in life -forms, including us, and of course, the fossil record.
I think you are wrong in saying that there is scientific dissent from Darwinism. Darwinism, correctly defined, is evolution -theory and science in overwhelming numbers (1) There is of course debate, discussion and disagreement, as well as re-assessment of theory and evidence, but the principles of evolution are accepted as scientific fact, and 'dessent' usually turns out to be quotes by evolutionists taken out of context.
What scientific evidence is there for Creation? I'll tell you - none. If there is, be the first Creationist apologist here to produce some. I mean of course, not trying to discredit evolution theory with irreducible complexity non-science, transitional -denial or just ad hom,as in your post above: 'You are closed -minded, arguing from an invalid presupposition, closing your eyes to the facts'. Ever heard of projection? But producing some scientifically valid evidence FOR Creation (2)
Let's see whether we can make some progress. I am the eternal optimist Suppose I say that I am quite willing to accept the possibility that Yeshua is indeed part of the equation, would you then be willing to drop your Faith -instilled objections to the equation and be willing to consider the evidence objectively?
P.s Everything is fine with me, thank you and getting better all the time - whether you pray for me or not.
(1) you will have heard of the 'Steve' response to the Creationists round -robin trying to drum up a list of creationists scientists
(2)and,of course, 'The Bible - millions of Scientists believe it.' Is NOT what I call scientific evidence for creation.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-15-2013 at 04:03 AM..
Not only is there no evidence whatsoever for the existence of a god or gods, much less can anyone rationally claim that Yahweh is real and any or all other gods are fake. That's nonsense.
You obviously have no conception of how science actually works. Science proceeds from the observable. Gods are not observable, obviously. There is nohing from which any kind of scientific hypothesizing, theorizing or investigation can proceed.
But since you continue to post your biases and opinions on this thread without really knowing what you are talking about, I'll ask again the very simple, direct, honest question below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis And is your assertion therefore that because you disbelieve the fact that evolution actually happens that this means that a god named Yahweh created the cosmos as recounted in The Book of Genesis? And that this should be taught to public school students?
Pardon me then ...I didn't see your question the first time. I believe that El Echad YHVH, who only is absolutely self sufficient, created the cosmos through a man whom HE took and adopted as His only begotten Son...and called Yeshua.
As for "evolution"...you're aware that with each passing generation mutations in the genetic code are degenerating the human population??
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22 KJV
The evolutionary ideology that so-called "beneficial mutations"somehow work their way in transforming one kind of animal, plant, or person into another is not scientifically valid. Yes I do believe that creation from a Biblical perspective should be allowed to be taught as much as Darwinian Evolution is, because if children are not allowed to question, and critically evaluate all areas of science but are forced to comply with current scientific orthodoxy, then public schools will be operating in a mode completely antithetical to the very nature of science...alas, they have been for decades.
So while evolutionists continue plotting a path for our childrens eminent demise, our children have as much right to know that after 65 milllion years evolutionists are still unable to provide any substantive details at all about the origen of life, much less the origin of genetic information in the first self-replicating organism. The origen of life...the foundation of evolution...is still speculation, and not fact.
The evolutionary claim for the ability of random mutation and natural selection accounting for the complexity of life is based on faith alone and cannot ever be proven.
In fact, it takes more faith for you to continue positing your bs than it does for me to simply state
that "G-d did it!" No more biased and opinionated than you are .
As for your observable "science"...only your ideologies about what might have happened on earth prior to the emergence of life, which you were not around to observe, are eminently testable in a lab. And hey, whatta ya know...our friend RM has doen all the leg work for us. What he saw when the reactions were left unguided as they would be in the natural world is not much. Decomposition reactions and competing reactions out distance synthetic reactions by far. Only when an intelligent agent, such as RM intervened and "tweaked" the reactions conditions "just right" did he see any progress at all, a progression quite limited and far from where he desired to be like many of his atheistic contemporaries...without G-d.
An impossible thought. Aren't you tired of the narrow-minded straightjacket of naturalism?
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Pretty predictable ideology, yup!
Ever heard of projection? But producing some scientifically valid evidence FOR Creation (2) 
Suppose I say that I am quite willing to accept the possibility that Yeshua is indeed part of the equation, would you then be willing to drop your Faith -instilled objections to the equation and be willing to consider the evidence objectively?
