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Locally we have a firetower on a mountain overlooking the city. At Christmas at night they put a star on it, at Easter they put a cross on it.
One local malcontent raised a stink about it and demanded it be stopped. She called in the ACLU and they threatend to take the city to court to have them stop, after all the tower is a publicly owned structure. The city and the majority of its residents were indignant and the mayor and city district attorney threatened to to take the ACLU to court in a counter suit if they did. People siged petitions pledging financial support if it came to that.
The ACLU blustered and huffed that the city at least had to offer other religions equal access to the tower for their religious holidays and would have to pay for their displays as well.
The city said anybody who wanted to use the tower for a religious display could, as long as they paid for it. The star and cross were paid for privately for the last 50 years, the city never spent a dime.
The ACLU saw that they had minimal public support and virtually no case of discrimination so it slunk away with its tail between its legs. It aslo turned out that the woman who complained had an axe to grind with the city on another issue and was just trying to cause a stir.
People are tolerant. Christians more than most. Last year in a nearby town they had a Halloween parade and some athiest activists dressed up as a zombie Mohammed and a zombie Pope to criticize the christian and moslem religions as well as to ridicule Halloween in general as a stupid holiday( their words). The zombie Mohammed got assaulted by a moslem who didn't appreciate the display. Christians only insulted them.
Sorry for the "bad Atheist" that are out there, i'm not a prejudice person at all so i support people celebrating their religious holidays.
The more I see things like this happen and contemplate them, the more I don't understand the logic from a legal standpoint.
I mean, Christmas is a National Holiday...put in place by the government. It is meant to commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ...thus the CHRISTmas label to this federally designated holiday.
Would it not be reasonable to have depictions of the scene this holiday was meant to celebrate...a holiday that was put in place by the U.S. government...on land that is under governmental control?
To say that the typical decorations of a Federal Holiday that honors a historical figure that presented a superlative philosophy violates the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment of The Constitution...simply because that person is associated with religion...is bogus.
By that logic, we should scrap Martin Luther King Day too...for sure there should be no statues of him, or quotes from his speeches as he presented his philosophy.
See...since he was REVEREND Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., went to Crozer Theological Seminary, got a degree in "Divinity", and was a Baptist Church Minister, he could certainly be associated with a religion. So having a Federal Holiday designated for a guy with THAT background and title would certainly violate the Establishment Clause.
Funny though...I don't see any Atheist/Secular factions saying anything about REVEREND M. L. King, The Baptist Minister statues on government land. I'm sure they have reasons for that.
I say...if it is a holiday recognized/established by the government...typical decorations/displays on government land are cool. How could they NOT be...except in the minds of those that are biased toward the honored person?
If I remember right, this was the park from the movie Dear God starring Greg Kinnear. I'm not up in arms about this, but why do we need religious anything in a park?
The more I see things like this happen and contemplate them, the more I don't understand the logic from a legal standpoint.
I mean, Christmas is a National Holiday...put in place by the government. It is meant to commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ...thus the CHRISTmas label to this federally designated holiday.
Would it not be reasonable to have depictions of the scene this holiday was meant to celebrate...a holiday that was put in place by the U.S. government...on land that is under governmental control?
To say that the typical decorations of a Federal Holiday that honors a historical figure that presented a superlative philosophy violates the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment of The Constitution...simply because that person is associated with religion...is bogus.
By that logic, we should scrap Martin Luther King Day too...for sure there should be no statues of him, or quotes from his speeches as he presented his philosophy.
See...since he was REVEREND Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., went to Crozer Theological Seminary, got a degree in "Divinity", and was a Baptist Church Minister, he could certainly be associated with a religion. So having a Federal Holiday designated for a guy with THAT background and title would certainly violate the Establishment Clause.
Funny though...I don't see any Atheist/Secular factions saying anything about REVEREND M. L. King, The Baptist Minister statues on government land. I'm sure they have reasons for that.
I say...if it is a holiday recognized/established by the government...typical decorations/displays on government land are cool. How could they NOT be...except in the minds of those that are biased toward the honored person?
MLK is honored for actual contributions to civil rights, completely unrelated to religion. the nativity is lame mythology associated directly with religion
MLK is honored for actual contributions to civil rights, completely unrelated to religion. the nativity is lame mythology associated directly with religion
"Free at last...Free at last...THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I'm free at last!"---Yeah..that sounds "completely unrelated to religion"...especially from the mouth of a Baptist Reverend.
OTOH...I doubt the "Baby Jesus", as He was being born...which is what the FEDERAL HOLIDAY commemorates (the birth of Christ)...had any religious affiliations at the time.
He was a Jew...which was a given because of where He was born...but in and of Himself, presented as more of a great philosopher than as a religious figure during His life.
What does it being part of so-called "mythology" have to do with the great message and lesson of the philosophy put forth by the character honored by the government sanctioned Holiday?
"Free at last...Free at last...THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I'm free at last!"---Yeah..that sounds "completely unrelated to religion"...especially from the mouth of a Baptist Reverend.
Clear up my memory - where is this phrase written into civil rights legislation?
"Free at last...Free at last...THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I'm free at last!"---Yeah..that sounds "completely unrelated to religion"...especially from the mouth of a Baptist Reverend.
OTOH...I doubt the "Baby Jesus", as He was being born...which is what the FEDERAL HOLIDAY commemorates (the birth of Christ)...had any religious affiliations at the time.
He was a Jew...which was a given because of where He was born...but in and of Himself, presented as more of a great philosopher than as a religious figure during His life.
What does it being part of so-called "mythology" have to do with the great message and lesson of the philosophy put forth by the character honored by the government sanctioned Holiday?
GldnRule, I was there on August 28, 1963 when those words were first spoken and there was nothing religious attached to them or the event that took place. This was a gathering of people, all different kinds of people, protesting peacefully the unfair treatment of a particular group of people. This was not a religious event in any way shape or form.
"Free at last...Free at last...THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I'm free at last!"---Yeah..that sounds "completely unrelated to religion"...especially from the mouth of a Baptist Reverend.
OTOH...I doubt the "Baby Jesus", as He was being born...which is what the FEDERAL HOLIDAY commemorates (the birth of Christ)...had any religious affiliations at the time.
He was a Jew...which was a given because of where He was born...but in and of Himself, presented as more of a great philosopher than as a religious figure during His life.
What does it being part of so-called "mythology" have to do with the great message and lesson of the philosophy put forth by the character honored by the government sanctioned Holiday?
It has to do with religion, as this "great philosopher" is the namesake of a religion and is worshiped like a deity.
So MLK thanked god...he is still not considered a religious figure.
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