Evidence for God's existence (Revelations, prophet, Islam, Satan)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I worked jobs that I thought were humiliating and even had to regularly see my peers from academia on this job. But I also had small children and off course I loved them and I would feed my self to a lion if they ask me to. Was working this job an act of love, duty or sacrifice ? We may be at a semantic impasse, but I think it doesn't matter and that these motivations are sometime inseparable.
I think religion over emphasizes the word love. Some times Pragmatism and realism can get the same results as religion.
Yes, and that is another proof.
We know love exists because we ourselves feel that emotion.
We know that humans have fundamentally the same minds, and bodies on the basic level at least. E.g. most of us have hands, eyes, memory, fear, love, and hate. So if you feel love then you know that others have this basic emotion.
Also, you can observe actions body language that goes along with this feeling that you yourself have displayed when feeling love.
You can also read people's emotional expressions (face, voice, what you do with your arms, etc), and you can read the love emotions (especially when they go along with actions), that you yourself display when having that emotion.
Even if you don't feel this 100% proves love exists, this is at least evidence for love's existence.
In the same way secular people are not asking for a 100% proof of God's existence, they are only looking for evidence.
Many theists bring up this question because they are confused about what evidence is. They think atheists and agnostics are asking to directly see God to believe in him. So theists ask atheists and agnostics to prove that love exists, something that we know exists but never directly see.
Actually we are looking for evidence. You don't need to directly see something to have evidence for it. For example, we have never directly seen evolution by common descent happen yet we have strong scientific evidence for it. We have never directly seen gravity, or wind, because these are invisible, yet we have strong scientific evidence for them. We have not directly seen an electron but we have evidence that electrons exist.
And I am not even asking for scientific evidence, just evidence in general.
I would like theists to list some evidence they have for God existing. I will rough up each one a little bit to see the strongest ones and them make threads about each individually.
If I don't get any, then I will try to help start the conversation by proving some well-known ones.
I am not going to make a factual claim that God exists. What I will say is that I believe God exists.
At times we all in life may decide to believe in something because they may think what may look as evidence of the existence of God.
I think that using logic, reason, and facts it is reasonable to consider the possibility of the existence of God.
On one side some people make the claim that God does not exists but using logic, reason, and facts, they cannot prove such claim either.
Granted, that some may agree with this but say that it is very unlikely that God exists, fair enough also.
However, those on both sides of the issue that state their views in factual statements to me are simply making a choice of what they want to believe because neither side can prove their case with certainty.
I have read how people often believe how they believe are influenced by many factors. In the end they are still a product of their environment and to them what they believe is logical, reasoned, and factual and the rest of the world is wrong. Take care.
I am not going to make a factual claim that God exists. What I will say is that I believe God exists.
At times we all in life may decide to believe in something because they may think what may look as evidence of the existence of God.
I think that using logic, reason, and facts it is reasonable to consider the possibility of the existence of God.
On one side some people make the claim that God does not exists but using logic, reason, and facts, they cannot prove such claim either.
Granted, that some may agree with this but say that it is very unlikely that God exists, fair enough also.
However, those on both sides of the issue that state their views in factual statements to me are simply making a choice of what they want to believe because neither side can prove their case with certainty.
I have read how people often believe how they believe are influenced by many factors. In the end they are still a product of their environment and to them what they believe is logical, reasoned, and factual and the rest of the world is wrong. Take care.
Well, you can believe whatever you like. You can believe in unicorns, Zeus, bigfoot, astrology, God, magic or whatever else, and no one can force you to be reasonable.
In my view, if you don't have a reason for your belief that shows that your belief is justified, then you are being irrational. This is why it is important for theists to try to present evidence for God's existence.
Personhood
morals and ethics
logic
language
design
beauty
love
consciousness
There is something rather than nothing
The origin of the universe
The fine tuning of the universe for life
Objective moral values and duties
The historical facts surrounding the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus
Peoples personal testimony and experiences with God
Did I miss anything?
Yes, any connection between your list, and "evidentiary value" in the question of evidence of a god.
Actually, the retraction theory seems to have been mostly debunked as the universe is expanding at a faster rate, making a "big crunch" unlikely without some fairly serious metaphysics of it's own. It appears to be a one time shot, our part of an infinite multiverse outside of our own universe. Or maybe there is a god.
I have my money on Santa Claus - there is far more evidence of his existance than of any creator describable as "god".
I am not going to make a factual claim that God exists. What I will say is that I believe God exists.
At times we all in life may decide to believe in something because they may think what may look as evidence of the existence of God.
I think that using logic, reason, and facts it is reasonable to consider the possibility of the existence of God.
On one side some people make the claim that God does not exists but using logic, reason, and facts, they cannot prove such claim either.
Granted, that some may agree with this but say that it is very unlikely that God exists, fair enough also.
However, those on both sides of the issue that state their views in factual statements to me are simply making a choice of what they want to believe because neither side can prove their case with certainty.
I have read how people often believe how they believe are influenced by many factors. In the end they are still a product of their environment and to them what they believe is logical, reasoned, and factual and the rest of the world is wrong. Take care.
A well - thought out and reasonable post.
There are two points overlooked, however. Not disagreeing with your argument in the least (just the conclusion ) "I think that using logic, reason, and facts it is reasonable to consider the possibility of the existence of God."
Even if that is correct, a possibility is not logically good enough reason to say:-
"I am not going to make a factual claim that God exists. What I will say is that I believe God exists."
Why? A possibility? Then it is a Faith- based claim and the mention of logic, reason and facts is a bit of a smokescreen. If your logic, reason and facts amounted to a probability that God existed, then your argument would be sound.
You may now wish to argue that logic, reason and facts amount to a probability that God exists. Good luck with that.
Second point. The nature of this 'god' (the rule is lower case) is not defined. That is, are we talking about a sorta god that made the universe and started life and placed everything just so, that we could live here? That is indeed an argument with some mileage. I'll give you that.
But if you are talking about the God of the Bible or of its subsidiary cults, then logic, facts and reason definitely does not (I would and will argue) support the probability or indeed the possibility of such a god; and to believe in Biblegod is not in accordance with logic, reason or fact.
So, amigo, do you just profess to believe by Faith in a sorta creator or are you in possession of facts and reasons which will justify such a belief? In which case, I am tolerant of your beliefs, though I would not agree with them.
But if it is the petulant, incompetent, dishonest, violent and dictatorial God of the bible, then I am not tolerant of your belief because it would be utterly unworthy of any intelligent person in this century.
What kind of proof will you accept. Its been a while since I read Descartes on this subject, but I remember his argument for the existence of God. His argument although complex, is of course logical. Are faith and the proof of Gods existence mutually exclusive? Perhaps the nature of God requires us to use faith the same way an engineer uses physics. The nature of God manifest its self in many ways to many people through out history. So is it proof that God exist if some one can give a tangible example of how the Nature of God manifest it self in their life. As you may be able to tell my ideals on this subject are quite nebulous and somewhat contradictory. I have a strong belief that this subject which mankind has pondered for many generations is the bread basket of all knowledge because it is unsolvable.
What kind of proof will you accept. Its been a while since I read Descartes on this subject, but I remember his argument for the existence of God. His argument although complex, is of course logical. Are faith and the proof of Gods existence mutually exclusive? Perhaps the nature of God requires us to use faith the same way an engineer uses physics. The nature of God manifest its self in many ways to many people through out history. So is it proof that God exist if some one can give a tangible example of how the Nature of God manifest it self in their life. As you may be able to tell my ideals on this subject are quite nebulous and somewhat contradictory. I have a strong belief that this subject which mankind has pondered for many generations is the bread basket of all knowledge because it is unsolvable.
Yes, and in the same way we have many accounts of alien abductions.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) "I think that using logic, reason, and facts it is reasonable to consider the possibility of the existence of God."
