Order of the Eastern Star-Free Mason.. (quotes, baptize, Catholics, holy communion)
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lots of fear on this topic. free masonry is a mens organization. lots of cops and military belong. nothing evil goin on. if there were, i would know. they helped found this country. some very famous people and some very good men are masons. if this were not so i would not say it.
One of the main problems in understanding what Freemasons do is that people start with a judgement of what we are. Masonry isn't a church. It isn't a religion. No matter how much some theologians over the years have attempted to parse some eschatology out of Masonic rituals, it simply isn't there beyond this: there is a God who created the universe and all therein contained and humans have a spirit that exists beyond physical death. The particulars are left up to individual members.
Some churches have issues with people praying by those who are of different beliefs--that is the one point I will concede to them. If they believe such to be syncretic, they can believe so. There is no corporate prayer in Masonry---when a prayer is given by the Chaplain, each member prays individually in his mind.
I'll address commmon religious misconceptions about the Masonic fraternity here:
Quote:
The Lodge Says:
The one God is not triune
Any god is acceptable
Any view of Christ is acceptable
The lodge is not a church, it's a fraternity based on principles that establish civic virtue. The lodge says "There is a God who created the universe". Beyond this members can come to their own conclusions and adhere to their own beliefs. If you approach Masonry from the context that it's a religion, you're bound to reach illogical conclusions.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
The Bible is a furniture showpiece
All "holy books" are good
The Lodge says that all holy books are equally revered by their adherents, and that they contain moral teachings.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
God doesn't expect perfection
Some can be virtuous
God provides illumination to "save" us
Christ is only a good example to set us on the right path
Resurrection is not physical
Salvation must be earned
This is all false. Masonry doesn't speak to any of these doctrinal concepts.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
Man is basically good
Man seeks god through symbol and allegory
To learn to please god by actions
Faith in any god plus good works saves
This is all false. Masonry doesn't speak to any of these doctrinal concepts.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
Any lodge member can be virtuous
Anything "good" is god-pleasing
Define "virtuous". In the Masonic sense, it means that a man can live a life that displays virtue. To use a common theological term, it's "civic virtue".
Quote:
The Lodge Says
Man saves himself
False.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
Praying adorns a ritual
Any prayer is true prayer
The lodge teaches that people should pray--nothing more.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
Teach only the physically healthy
Speak way of life only to lodge members
Women and blacks kept out
Don't challenge another religion
Never reveal, conceal
The physically healthy part carries over from the days that there was a certain amount of Operative Masonry being carried out---essentially, it was insurance for an Operative Lodge so that they wouldn't have a member that they'd have to support from the time that he first joined until death.
What happens in a lodge meeting is supposed to stay in that meeting. Masons can talk about the main tenets of Freemasonry freely with impunity. The only real secrets left are the modes of recognition.
Since Freemasonry is a fraternity, it doesn't admit women. There are some all-female masonic lodges. Freemasonry admits black people. As far as challenging another religion--Freemasonry isn't a religion. Now, if we're talking about challenging another fraternity, I already challenged the Knights of Columbus to a softball game when I was WM.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
Glorify all gods as one.
Leave Christ outside the lodge door
The lodge says that there is one creator God. The lodge also says that, for the purpose of harmony, sectarian religion and partisan politics not be discussed in a meeting.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
Rituals usually require oath
Reworded rituals require a promise made in the presence of God
Swear to uphold what is unknown
Oath is nothing to worry about
The Masonic obligations are constructed in such a way that you don't actually swear to anything until the end of the obligation. After the list of obligations comes the "swearing". Considering the number of oaths and vows taken in the Bible by prophets, patriarchs, apostles; and the number of accpetable oaths taken every day by people in court, public servants, and members of the armed forces.
Quote:
The Lodge Says
We can worship many gods
Lodge membership won't effect church participation
Avoid religious debate
The lodge says that there is one creator God. Outside of this, it doesn't speak to what is correct or incorrect insofar as worship is concerned.
My church participation has increased since I joined Lodge. Masonic lodges encourage their members to be actively involved in the practice of their individual faiths. From my own casual observation, people who attended church before joining the lodge continued attending. Those who didn't regularly attend don't regularly attend.
I obviously am not avoiding religious debate---most of my posts have been in the Religion section. The Lodge says not to debate religion or politics in a lodge meeting. When the lodge isn't in session, you can debate whatever your heart desires.
There are those who say that Masonry is anti-Christian, because it doesn't allow you to talk about Jesus to your fellow Lodge members. Again, this isn't forbidden outside of a meeting--just within a meeting in order to preserve harmony. Masonic meetings aren't worship services; they're generally more along the lines of business meeting.
In summary, I believe that a lot of the problems arise when people who aren't very well-versed in Masonry start interpreting Masonic rituals and symbols from a context that is outside of the institution. In Masonic ritual, nearly everything is meant to be taken symbolically. The irony that I find in so much of what Christian anti-Masonry says is that there are still huge elements and themes in masonic ritual that reflect back to when it was a Christian-only institution. As a Christian Mason, it's so obvious that it's remarkable.
Oh, and as an aside to the person who said that most Masons can recite more Masonic catechisms than Scripture; perhaps Churches need to start making Scripture memorization compulsory for membership. That's the big difference right there.
One of the main problems in understanding what Freemasons do is that people start with a judgement of what we are. Masonry isn't a church. It isn't a religion. No matter how much some theologians over the years have attempted to parse some eschatology out of Masonic rituals, it simply isn't there beyond this: there is a God who created the universe and all therein contained and humans have a spirit that exists beyond physical death. The particulars are left up to individual members.
Some churches have issues with people praying by those who are of different beliefs--that is the one point I will concede to them. If they believe such to be syncretic, they can believe so.
I'll address commmon religious misconceptions about the Masonic fraternity here:
The lodge is not a church, it's a fraternity based on principles that establish civic virtue. The lodge says "There is a God who created the universe". Beyond this members can come to their own conclusions and adhere to their own beliefs. If you approach Masonry from the context that it's a religion, you're bound to reach illogical conclusions.
The Lodge says that all holy books are equally revered by their adherents, and that they contain moral teachings.
This is all false. Masonry doesn't speak to any of these doctrinal concepts.
This is all false. Masonry doesn't speak to any of these doctrinal concepts.
Define "virtuous". In the Masonic sense, it means that a man can live a life that displays virtue. To use a common theological term, it's "civic virtue".
False.
The lodge teaches that people should pray--nothing more.
The physically healthy part carries over from the days that there was a certain amount of Operative Masonry being carried out---essentially, it was insurance for an Operative Lodge so that they wouldn't have a member that they'd have to support from the time that he first joined until death.
What happens in a lodge meeting is supposed to stay in that meeting. Masons can talk about the main tenets of Freemasonry freely with impunity. The only real secrets left are the modes of recognition.
Since Freemasonry is a fraternity, it doesn't admit women. There are some all-female masonic lodges. Freemasonry admits black people. As far as challenging another religion--Freemasonry isn't a religion. Now, if we're talking about challenging another fraternity, I already challenged the Knights of Columbus to a softball game when I was WM.
The lodge says that there is one creator God. The lodge also says that, for the purpose of harmony, sectarian religion and partisan politics not be discussed in a meeting.
The Masonic obligations are constructed in such a way that you don't actually swear to anything until the end of the obligation. After the list of obligations comes the "swearing". Considering the number of oaths and vows taken in the Bible by prophets, patriarchs, apostles; and the number of accpetable oaths taken every day by people in court, public servants, and members of the armed forces.
The lodge says that there is one creator God. Outside of this, it doesn't speak to what is correct or incorrect insofar as worship is concerned.
My church participation has increased since I joined Lodge. Masonic lodges encourage their members to be actively involved in the practice of their individual faiths. From my own casual observation, people who attended church before joining the lodge continued attending. Those who didn't regularly attend don't regularly attend.
I obviously am not avoiding religious debate---most of my posts have been in the Religion section. The Lodge says not to debate religion or politics in a lodge meeting. When the lodge isn't in session, you can debate whatever your heart desires.
There are those who say that Masonry is anti-Christian, because it'd doesn't allow you to talk about Jesus to your fellow Lodge members. Again, this isn't forbidden outside of a meeting--just within a meeting in order to preserve harmony. Masonic meetings aren't worship services; they're generally more along the lines of business meeting.
In summary, I believe that a lot of the problems arise when people who aren't very well-versed in Masonry start interpreting Masonic rituals and symbols from a context that is outside of the institution. In Masonic ritual, nearly everything is meant to be taken symbolically. The irony that I find in so much of what Christian anti-Masonry says is that there are still huge elements in masonic ritual that reflects back to when it was a Christian-only institution. As a Christian Mason, it's so obvious that it's remarkable.
Oh, and as an aside to the person who said that most Masons can recite more Masonic catechisms than Scripture; perhaps Churches need to start making Scripture memorization compulsory for membership. That's the big difference right there.
Couple of thoughts, Travis, and then I feel I've said my peace.
First, on your closing statement about scriptures, sorry, but that just doesn't fly. I'm simply making my arguments from a Christian standpoint and the church should not HAVE to require scripture memorization. A believer should want to learn it. Any Christian who knows more catechisms than scripture can't blame the church, they blame themselves. No one forces them to join the lodge and no one forces them to join the church....so it comes down to which texts are most important to you. The point was commitment to Christ vs. commitment to the lodge.
You kept saying 'Masonry isn't a religion', 'the lodge isn't a church'....whatever.
Shriners are 'advanced' masons, right?
and what's that building called?
Oh yeah, I remember, an Oasis Temple.....nothing religious about that.
Also, how can a Christian be alright with this quote from you: Any view of Christ is acceptable? Seriously, this should be as plain as black and white.
If you're OK with being involved with freemasonry, that's between you and God. This forum is a place where everyone can share their views and opinions and that's all I've done in this thread. The information is out there.....for anyone seriously looking just google and/or go to a Christian bookstore and buy some books/information on this.
These aren't my ideas, I was taught these things about freemasonry through research and prayer.
Hi ptsum,
What are the criteria for joining?
When someone asks to join your fraternity, how do you determine their eligibility for membership?
First, when you ask you will be presented with an application, what we call a petition, you will then have to fill out the necessary information on that petition and then give it back to the individual that you got it from, at which point it will be recommended to the lodge by three members of that lodge and then later you'll be visited by three members of the lodge who will sit down with you and ask you some questions, if you are married they would ask both you and your wife the same questions, basically the questions would be your reason for joining the lodge and if you have a belief in a supreme Creator, and then these three individuals would go back to the lodge with their recommendation, at which point the lodge would then vote on whether to accept as a member.
IMHO, that 'creep out' feeling is a little something Christians call the Holy Spirit.
It was that feeling that led me to begin looking into these organizations. I had a free masonry application and my own grandfather was going to sponsor me. I was very close to joining. I had multiple masons in my church that were in support of me in this endeavor, but again, I'm just very thankful I was receptive to what I felt was a strong leading away from this organization.
You just may be correct!!
In any case I was extremely uncomfortable with their ritual performed at the funeral home.....
Just kept my head down and eyes averted
My husband brought his ring home and many of the books....I put them away, out of sight
Don't know why he didn't leave the ring on him..the apron and I believe vest went to eternity with him
One of the main problems in understanding what Freemasons do is that people start with a judgement of what we are. Masonry isn't a church. It isn't a religion. No matter how much some theologians over the years have attempted to parse some eschatology out of Masonic rituals, it simply isn't there beyond this: there is a God who created the universe and all therein contained and humans have a spirit that exists beyond physical death. The particulars are left up to individual members.
Some churches have issues with people praying by those who are of different beliefs--that is the one point I will concede to them. If they believe such to be syncretic, they can believe so. There is no corporate prayer in Masonry---when a prayer is given by the Chaplain, each member prays individually in his mind.
I'll address commmon religious misconceptions about the Masonic fraternity here:
The lodge is not a church, it's a fraternity based on principles that establish civic virtue. The lodge says "There is a God who created the universe". Beyond this members can come to their own conclusions and adhere to their own beliefs. If you approach Masonry from the context that it's a religion, you're bound to reach illogical conclusions.
The Lodge says that all holy books are equally revered by their adherents, and that they contain moral teachings.
This is all false. Masonry doesn't speak to any of these doctrinal concepts.
This is all false. Masonry doesn't speak to any of these doctrinal concepts.
Define "virtuous". In the Masonic sense, it means that a man can live a life that displays virtue. To use a common theological term, it's "civic virtue".
False.
The lodge teaches that people should pray--nothing more.
The physically healthy part carries over from the days that there was a certain amount of Operative Masonry being carried out---essentially, it was insurance for an Operative Lodge so that they wouldn't have a member that they'd have to support from the time that he first joined until death.
What happens in a lodge meeting is supposed to stay in that meeting. Masons can talk about the main tenets of Freemasonry freely with impunity. The only real secrets left are the modes of recognition.
Since Freemasonry is a fraternity, it doesn't admit women. There are some all-female masonic lodges. Freemasonry admits black people. As far as challenging another religion--Freemasonry isn't a religion. Now, if we're talking about challenging another fraternity, I already challenged the Knights of Columbus to a softball game when I was WM.
The lodge says that there is one creator God. The lodge also says that, for the purpose of harmony, sectarian religion and partisan politics not be discussed in a meeting.
The Masonic obligations are constructed in such a way that you don't actually swear to anything until the end of the obligation. After the list of obligations comes the "swearing". Considering the number of oaths and vows taken in the Bible by prophets, patriarchs, apostles; and the number of accpetable oaths taken every day by people in court, public servants, and members of the armed forces.
The lodge says that there is one creator God. Outside of this, it doesn't speak to what is correct or incorrect insofar as worship is concerned.
My church participation has increased since I joined Lodge. Masonic lodges encourage their members to be actively involved in the practice of their individual faiths. From my own casual observation, people who attended church before joining the lodge continued attending. Those who didn't regularly attend don't regularly attend.
I obviously am not avoiding religious debate---most of my posts have been in the Religion section. The Lodge says not to debate religion or politics in a lodge meeting. When the lodge isn't in session, you can debate whatever your heart desires.
There are those who say that Masonry is anti-Christian, because it doesn't allow you to talk about Jesus to your fellow Lodge members. Again, this isn't forbidden outside of a meeting--just within a meeting in order to preserve harmony. Masonic meetings aren't worship services; they're generally more along the lines of business meeting.
In summary, I believe that a lot of the problems arise when people who aren't very well-versed in Masonry start interpreting Masonic rituals and symbols from a context that is outside of the institution. In Masonic ritual, nearly everything is meant to be taken symbolically. The irony that I find in so much of what Christian anti-Masonry says is that there are still huge elements and themes in masonic ritual that reflect back to when it was a Christian-only institution. As a Christian Mason, it's so obvious that it's remarkable.
Oh, and as an aside to the person who said that most Masons can recite more Masonic catechisms than Scripture; perhaps Churches need to start making Scripture memorization compulsory for membership. That's the big difference right there.
from one worshipful brother to another, thank you for your input
First, when you ask you will be presented with an application, what we call a petition, you will then have to fill out the necessary information on that petition and then give it back to the individual that you got it from, at which point it will be recommended to the lodge by three members of that lodge and then later you'll be visited by three members of the lodge who will sit down with you and ask you some questions, if you are married they would ask both you and your wife the same questions, basically the questions would be your reason for joining the lodge and if you have a belief in a supreme Creator, and then these three individuals would go back to the lodge with their recommendation, at which point the lodge would then vote on whether to accept as a member.
Hmm. OK. So I guess I would need to see the petition questions to know what the criteria is.
Can you tell me - in general - what current members would want or not want in a new member (assuming that the belief in a Creator has been established)?
ptsum---this is outside of the scope of this thread, but the Council of Nicaea didn't decide New Testament canon. Constantine was given a bible, the contents of which, we don't know. There were 23 undisputed "books" of what is now the New Testament prior to the Council of Nicaea, and the canon wasn't officially decided until the Council of Carthage, 60 years after Constantine died. Despite popular opinion, pre-Carthage canons tended to be smaller than what was decided at Carthage rather than larger (which is the common belief).
Sorry, I have this thing about the Council of Nicaea, I just can't let any argument about it go.
First off, what has the harm in like-minded men of different religions getting together to try to help mankind? Freemasons, Shriners, Tall Cedars of Lebanon, Knights Templar,Eastern Star, Job's Daughter, DeMolay, Rainbow Girls, are all part of this fraternity, we are the oldest and largest fraternal organization in the world and our charities are numerous. We spend over $2.5 million a day on our charities, everything from the Shriners hospitals, to the Scottish Rite Language Disorder Centers, Knights Templars Eye Banks, The Tall Cedars with Jerry Lewis and his Muscular Dystrophy Association, To Children's Hospitals, and numerous Orphanages and Senior Care Centers throughout the country, all of these come under the umbrella of Freemasonry, now you tell me what other fraternal organization does that.
Hmm. OK. So I guess I would need to see the petition questions to know what the criteria is.
Can you tell me - in general - what current members would want or not want in a new member (assuming that the belief in a Creator has been established)?
do you consider yourself a person of good moral standards? Do you have a belief in a supreme Creator? Essentially this is the basic criteria for becoming a member of the fraternity. Once this has been established the rest is up to you, as with any fraternal organization you will only get out of it what you put into it, remember this is a volunteer organization, first and foremost family comes first.
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