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I find it very interesting reading this thread about Freemasonry and the Eastern Star particularly the comments by individuals who are not members of the order or fraternity and know absolutely nothing about it. Let me first explain I am a 32nd degree KCCH Scottish Rite Mason, Past Master of four different lodges and Past Wise Master of the Evangelist Chapter of Rose Croix and a Knights Templar, I currently serve as a Grand Lodge Officer of the Grand Lodge of the District of Columbia in Washington, DC. I find it very insulting for anyone to say that I worship Lucifer, or for anyone who is so narrow minded to believe such a thing. Freemasonry is not a religion of any kind, all Freemasons know that we tolerate all religions and welcome any member of any religion in our fraternity, it is the hierarchy of the church of whatever religion you belong to that prevents you from becoming an member of the fraternity and why is that? It is because they are afraid that they will lose their power over you and you will begin to start thinking for yourself, freethinkers are one of the biggest enemies of the church because they want you to be their sheep. Freemasonry wants you to think for yourself, open your mind, take off the blinders and look around. The only person who cannot become a member of the fraternity is an atheist because they do not have a belief in a supreme being, by whatever name you want to call him. We are not out to destroy the church, the churches out to try to destroy us, because of their ignorance and lies. As for Freemasonry being a secret society, if that were true you would never know about us, actually the big secret about Freemasonry is that there are no secrets. We have no ties to the Skull and Bones or the illuminati, these are stories that have been made up by individuals who know nothing about the fraternity and are perpetuated by ignorant individuals.
The problem is does the Freemasons claim Christianty and in front of ALL members do they pray in the name of Jesus or NOT????
Wildberries61; I'm 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite, I have a pretty good idea of what goes on with Scottish Rite. I've known a number of 33rd degree masons for the past number of years, and am loathe to launch unproven allegations at good and decent men. What decent proof is there of this horrible Masonic bogeyman?
Not sure, but I believe I read where the Scottish Rite were more Christian acting then others. I wasn't trying to insult you on a personal level. I don't believe they choose every one for their plan just a select few and maybe you don't have the quality's their looking for. Maybe they realize they can't fool you and I'm sure someone totally set in there Christian values are not what they need. As a Christian it's your job to seek all accepts of who you donate your money and time too.
I DO NOT like organizations who claim Christianity and then act like all religions are on the same level and that the Christian God is the same God. Also, organizations who claim God and deny Jesus, many people assume when you call yourself Christian you believe in Jesus. Then to find out down the road it was only God and never Jesus. This is deceiving to new believers and a lot of the organizations ruin people of EVER coming to Christ.
I would rather a group say come one, come all then to profess Christian values and claim all religions are the same!!
Here's the sites I have found. Ex-Masons for Jesus There's a story of a women who wanted to become an Eastern Star.
Wildberries, please tell me where you are seeing that Masons or anything affiliated with them say anything about promoting Jesus or being Christian? You seem to have a real problem with a possible hypocrisy issue, so I ask, where is the hypocrisy? I mentioned in a previous post on this thread that the Order of the Eastern Star already covers this issue. What more do you need?
The problem is does the Freemasons claim Christianty and in front of ALL members do they pray in the name of Jesus or NOT????
as I said earlier, we tolerate all religions, our membership consists of Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, and whatever other religion there may be, not all religions believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and so when we say our prayers and is always dedicated to the great architect of the universe and on the altars and our lodge room there can be three books of the sacred laws present. As you see we can be of various different beliefs and still get along with each other and work together.
Wildberries, please tell me where you are seeing that Masons or anything affiliated with them say anything about promoting Jesus or being Christian? You seem to have a real problem with a possible hypocrisy issue, so I ask, where is the hypocrisy? I mentioned in a previous post on this thread that the Order of the Eastern Star already covers this issue. What more do you need?
I think most of the issue for me lies on whether this is something that a professing Christian should be involved with and I have to emphatically say "No"
I've yet to meet a Mason who can quote as much scripture as they can Mason Catechisms.
My grandfather is a mason and has been the 'Worshipful Master' (I hate that title) of his lodge more than once. The problem I have with this organization is multi-faceted. Most Masons tell me 'No, Masons have to acknowledge a supreme being, so it must be OK."
Hardly.
Masons will stand and pray and you pray to your (G)god with other men....Allah, Jesus, Jehovah, Satan, etc....they don't care....you just have to acknowledge some supreme being. At worst, this is paganism and idolatry....at best, it hurts a Christians witness.
I realize this is in the R&P parent forum, but this is my opinion from a Christian perspective. It doesn't take much looking to realize there's too much of a debate on this issue to risk your witness for Christ.
Just saying......
Ex-Masons for Jesus
Secret Sins: 10 Questions for a Mason who Thinks He is Christian (http://www.withoneaccord.org/store/SecretSins.html - broken link)
Freemasonry is a Non-Christian Occult Religion (http://www.godonthe.net/cme/links/masons.htm - broken link)
I think most of the issue for me lies on whether this is something that a professing Christian should be involved with and I have to emphatically say "No" That is your choice, we are not forcing our fraternity on you so if you choose not to become a member of it you don't have to.
I've yet to meet a Mason who can quote as much scripture as they can Mason Catechisms. Then I take it you do not know of any ministers were preachers that are also Masons, because there are.
My grandfather is a mason and has been the 'Worshipful Master' (I hate that title) of his lodge more than once. The problem I have with this organization is multi-faceted. Most Masons tell me 'No, Masons have to acknowledge a supreme being, so it must be OK." And tell me, what is wrong with men of different faiths coming together to work as one?
Hardly.
Masons will stand and pray and you pray to your (G)god with other men....Allah, Jesus, Jehovah, Satan, etc....they don't care....you just have to acknowledge some supreme being. At worst, this is paganism and idolatry....at best, it hurts a Christians witness. Only in your own mind, and pray tell, what is it you're witnessing?
I realize this is in the R&P parent forum, but this is my opinion from a Christian perspective. It doesn't take much looking to realize there's too much of a debate on this issue to risk your witness for Christ.
Just saying......
Ex-Masons for Jesus
Secret Sins: 10 Questions for a Mason who Thinks He is Christian (http://www.withoneaccord.org/store/SecretSins.html - broken link)
Freemasonry is a Non-Christian Occult Religion (http://www.godonthe.net/cme/links/masons.htm - broken link)
First of all it is apparent that these websites that you are referring to that the individuals who have written the information on the sites had nothing to do with Freemasonry, mainly because they are not members of the fraternity themselves. My question to you, if you profess to be the Christian that you claim you are then why do you not tolerate those of other faiths, is that not what Christianity teaches you, to be tolerant of others, and if I decide to sit down with my Muslim brother and say a prayer with him I do not necessarily have to be praying to his God I could be praying to my own God, whichever that may be, they're all the same. As for the title Worshipful Master, it is an Old English term dating back to the formation of the first Grand Lodge in England, there is nothing religious about it, it is merely a title of respect.
First of all it is apparent that these websites that you are referring to that the individuals who have written the information on the sites had nothing to do with Freemasonry, mainly because they are not members of the fraternity themselves. My question to you, if you profess to be the Christian that you claim you are then why do you not tolerate those of other faiths, is that not what Christianity teaches you, to be tolerant of others, and if I decide to sit down with my Muslim brother and say a prayer with him I do not necessarily have to be praying to his God I could be praying to my own God, whichever that may be, they're all the same. As for the title Worshipful Master, it is an Old English term dating back to the formation of the first Grand Lodge in England, there is nothing religious about it, it is merely a title of respect.
I do tolerate those of other religions. A quick browse through my posts here would confirm that. However, I am only responding to this thread from a Christian perspective. As such, your phrase of "I do not necessarily have to be praying to his God I could be praying to my own God, whichever that may be, they're all the same" is completely inaccurate. Also, tolerating those of other faiths is not the same as colluding my faith with influences of other faiths.
I can appreciate anyone's right to practice their own faith, but kneeling and sharing a prayer to Allah, God, Jesus, and Satan is most certainly NOT what a Christian should be doing.
Your assessment of those sites if no surprise. I would just urge any Christian thinking of this to really seek God's will in your life with this. I can't imagine a Christian not having real issues when they put a sack over your head, a lambskin, a leash around your neck and lead you into a room to make oaths about your allegiance to this fraternity.
But if you get a peace from The King of King's on it, that's between you and Him.
I have some distant family members who are Masons, when one passed away, the Masons in their little aprons were the pall bearers. I had heard from alot of people this is rare to see.
I always thought secret handshakes, funny titles and what not, were kind of childish.
BUT as has been pointed out too me they do alot of charitable work with the Shriners hospital.
I think most of the issue for me lies on whether this is something that a professing Christian should be involved with and I have to emphatically say "No"
I've yet to meet a Mason who can quote as much scripture as they can Mason Catechisms.
My grandfather is a mason and has been the 'Worshipful Master' (I hate that title) of his lodge more than once. The problem I have with this organization is multi-faceted. Most Masons tell me 'No, Masons have to acknowledge a supreme being, so it must be OK."
Hardly.
Masons will stand and pray and you pray to your (G)god with other men....Allah, Jesus, Jehovah, Satan, etc....they don't care....you just have to acknowledge some supreme being. At worst, this is paganism and idolatry....at best, it hurts a Christians witness.
I realize this is in the R&P parent forum, but this is my opinion from a Christian perspective. It doesn't take much looking to realize there's too much of a debate on this issue to risk your witness for Christ.
Just saying......
Ex-Masons for Jesus
Secret Sins: 10 Questions for a Mason who Thinks He is Christian (http://www.withoneaccord.org/store/SecretSins.html - broken link)
Freemasonry is a Non-Christian Occult Religion (http://www.godonthe.net/cme/links/masons.htm - broken link)
I'm sorry, I just think that's silly. It's like volunteer prayer in school. You pray to yours, I'll pray to mine. As long as I'm praying to mine and not to another's, I just see no problem with it whatsoever, especially if they are not touting themselves as a Christian organization, but a Godly one. I mean, really, how many Hindu, Buddhists, or Muslims belong to a Masonic organization, anyway? My guess is they're mostly Christian and Jewish. I brought this up before, but what about Scouts? Are they a non-Christian occult religion as well? Hmmm. Something to think about, anyway.
I do tolerate those of other religions. A quick browse through my posts here would confirm that. However, I am only responding to this thread from a Christian perspective. As such, your phrase of "I do not necessarily have to be praying to his God I could be praying to my own God, whichever that may be, they're all the same" is completely inaccurate. Also, tolerating those of other faiths is not the same as colluding my faith with influences of other faiths. No one is asking you to be coddling to anybody else's faith, that is your choice and that is what Freemasonry is all about, choice. It's interesting, Christianity has been influenced by various different pagan religions from its very beginning,
I can appreciate anyone's right to practice their own faith, but kneeling and sharing a prayer to Allah, God, Jesus, and Satan is most certainly NOT what a Christian should be doing. Satan is not and never has been a part of Freemasonry, and just what exactly is a Christian supposed to be doing? I know at this point I'm about to start a real controversy here but, I cannot see believing in a book that was put together by a pagan emperor and censored by that same emperor and claimed to be the Word of God, I consider that hypocrisy at its height.
Your assessment of those sites if no surprise. I would just urge any Christian thinking of this to really seek God's will in your life with this. I can't imagine a Christian not having real issues when they put a sack over your head, a lambskin, a leash around your neck and lead you into a room to make oaths about your allegiance to this fraternity. I'm glad to see that my assessment of those sites do not surprise you, because my assessment is accurate, at no time are you forced to take any oath should you choose not to, it is of your own free will and achord that this is done, and I know a number of Christians who have become members of this fraternity and have no problem with it. In my experience it has always been the narrowminded thinking Christians that have a problem with any kind of fraternity or organization that they cannot control.
But if you get a peace from The King of King's on it, that's between you and Him.
If you have a problem with facing the reality of Christianity I suggest that you look up the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. and you will see how Christianity and the Catholic Church were highly influenced by the worship of the sun God " Sol Invictus " and how the pagan emperor Constantine commissioned the first Christian Bible.
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