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If you have a problem with facing the reality of Christianity I suggest that you look up the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. and you will see how Christianity and the Catholic Church were highly influenced by the worship of the sun God " Sol Invictus " and how the pagan emperor Constantine commissioned the first Christian Bible.
Again, confirmation on my convictions....you defend Freemasonry by attacking Christianity. The red flags just keep getting raised.
Look, for those reading and not posting and considering this...just go google the phrase: masons christian and see what you come up with.
I don't have to argue this with you, ptsum, your mind is made up and so is mine. It's obvious you are not a Christian so exactly how much weight should a Christian put on a non-Christian telling them 'It's OK, nothing to worry about here."
Again, confirmation on my convictions....you defend Freemasonry by attacking Christianity. The red flags just keep getting raised.
Look, for those reading and not posting and considering this...just go google the phrase: masons christian and see what you come up with.
I don't have to argue this with you, ptsum, your mind is made up and so is mine. It's obvious you are not a Christian so exactly how much weight should a Christian put on a non-Christian telling them 'It's OK, nothing to worry about here."
LOL.
Thank you.
Well I hate to burst your bubble but, I'm glad to see that we can agree to disagree and assuming that I am not a Christianit is about the biggest mistake you've made so far,you see I was brought up in the Lutheran faith,Missouri Senatet to be exact,which I have always considered to be the inheritors of the Inquisition,if Martin Luther ever came back and saw what has happened to his church he would start the reformation all over again,but that's another thread,I defend the fraternity because I find it liberatingto be able to sit down with the others of different faiths and work together as one for the betterment of all, regardless of faith or political affiliations you may belong to, that is what Freemasonry is about,we are not out to dominate the world, no matter what other people seem to think or say and we are not asking people to come and join us,you have to ask us to join the fraternity, we will not go out and recruit and we are selective about our membership. If you do not find this is right for you,that's okay, you don't have to join, however don't condemn or persecute us that do wish to be a part of this fraternity, that's all we ask.
If I was wrong on my assuming you were not a Christian, I apologize. My assumptions were based on your posts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
....our lodge room there can be three books of the sacred laws present.....
Most Christians only recognize one book of sacred law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
Only in your own mind, and pray tell, what is it you're witnessing?
Most Christians have heard of the phrase 'witnessing' and know what their 'witness' is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
....if I decide to sit down with my Muslim brother and say a prayer with him I do not necessarily have to be praying to his God I could be praying to my own God, whichever that may be, they're all the same.....
Most Christians would not say that their God is the same as all other religions gods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
It's interesting, Christianity has been influenced by various different pagan religions from its very beginning
Most Christians would argue that Jesus was a Christian. Most Christians would also deny that He was influenced by paganism. Most would also consider Jesus to be very key to Christianity 'from its very beginning'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
I'm about to start a real controversy here but, I cannot see believing in a book that was put together by a pagan emperor and censored by that same emperor and claimed to be the Word of God, I consider that hypocrisy at its height.
Most Christians would consider slandering the very book that their faith is built on to be a bit of an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
If you have a problem with facing the reality of Christianity I suggest that you look up the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. and you will see how Christianity and the Catholic Church were highly influenced by the worship of the sun God " Sol Invictus " and how the pagan emperor Constantine commissioned the first Christian Bible.
Most Christians believe that the texts their faith is based on were written a little prior to 325AD. They also have faith that their God can provide a representation of Himself to them despite carnal influence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
Well I hate to burst your bubble but, I'm glad to see that we can agree to disagree and assuming that I am not a Christianit is about the biggest mistake you've made so far.....
Again, if I'm wrong, I apologize. I just now realized you're just not like most Christians.
Also, I assure you I've made much larger mistakes than this one, but not in this thread.
I'm sorry, I just think that's silly. It's like volunteer prayer in school. You pray to yours, I'll pray to mine. As long as I'm praying to mine and not to another's, I just see no problem with it whatsoever, especially if they are not touting themselves as a Christian organization, but a Godly one. I mean, really, how many Hindu, Buddhists, or Muslims belong to a Masonic organization, anyway? My guess is they're mostly Christian and Jewish. I brought this up before, but what about Scouts? Are they a non-Christian occult religion as well? Hmmm. Something to think about, anyway.
I have to agree with you I think it's silly also, we are not touting ourselves as a Christian organization, we are merely members of like-minded individuals who belief in the betterment of all mankind, we are Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Islamic's, and even Christians of different faiths such as Baptist, Methodist, Lutherans, Protestants, Roman Catholics, and we don't care what your political affiliation is, we all believe in the betterment of mankind.
we are not asking people to come and join us,you have to ask us to join the fraternity, we will not go out and recruit and we are selective about our membership.
Hi ptsum,
What are the criteria for joining?
When someone asks to join your fraternity, how do you determine their eligibility for membership?
I have some distant family members who are Masons, when one passed away, the Masons in their little aprons were the pall bearers. I had heard from alot of people this is rare to see.
I always thought secret handshakes, funny titles and what not, were kind of childish.
BUT as has been pointed out too me they do alot of charitable work with the Shriners hospital.
yes, what is up with those aprons??? My FIL was a mason, I have to say his wake was one of the strangest wakes I've ever attended!! If I remember correctly, his apron was sealed in the casket with him after they did their ceremony.
I'm catholic and it creeped me out...maybe because I have no knowledge or understanding of masons, but creeped out just the same.
yes, what is up with those aprons??? My FIL was a mason, I have to say his wake was one of the strangest wakes I've ever attended!! If I remember correctly, his apron was sealed in the casket with him after they did their ceremony.
I'm catholic and it creeped me out...maybe because I have no knowledge or understanding of masons, but creeped out just the same.
IMHO, that 'creep out' feeling is a little something Christians call the Holy Spirit.
It was that feeling that led me to begin looking into these organizations. I had a free masonry application and my own grandfather was going to sponsor me. I was very close to joining. I had multiple masons in my church that were in support of me in this endeavor, but again, I'm just very thankful I was receptive to what I felt was a strong leading away from this organization.
If I was wrong on my assuming you were not a Christian, I apologize. My assumptions were based on your posts:
Most Christians only recognize one book of sacred law. Well that book is a combination of other books of sacred laws, the Old Testament comes from the Hebrew writings, the New Testament is a combination of stories put together and selected by a pagan emperor.
Most Christians have heard of the phrase 'witnessing' and know what their 'witness' is. I guess the Lutheran religion is not a Christian religion because they do not teach witnessing, although I have heard the term before associated with Fundamental and Evangelical Christians, which is something I have still yet to figure out.
Most Christians would not say that their God is the same as all other religions gods. No most Christians would not say that and I would not disagree with that statement however, who says that they're not all the same God? Different religions have different names for the same supreme being and worship Him in different ways, so who's right and who's wrong and who has the right to say which is which?
Most Christians would argue that Jesus was a Christian. Most Christians would also deny that He was influenced by paganism. Most would also consider Jesus to be very key to Christianity 'from its very beginning'. Most Christians would be wrong, Jesus was a Jew, he was a rabbi, a teacher, not a Christian, Christianity is the name of the religion that was started in his name by his followers.
Most Christians would consider slandering the very book that their faith is built on to be a bit of an issue. And most Islamics would feel the same way about Christians, ironic isn't it, they both have the same father, Abraham.
Most Christians believe that the texts their faith is based on were written a little prior to 325AD. They also have faith that their God can provide a representation of Himself to them despite carnal influence. I would agree with you on parts of this statement, and that is that prior to 325 A.D. there was no Bible as we know it, there were stories or books as they are called today about Jesus and his works, as for God in the Old Testament, most of this comes from the Hebrew writings and it was not until the Emperor Constantine who called together over 300 bishops, priests, and acolytes who attended the Council of Nicea that the first Christian Bible came into existence which was commissioned by the Emperor Constantine. I do not question people's faith in God, I believe we all need to have faith in something, some Supreme Being in order to have structure in our lives, but I do not condemn people because they do not believe the same as I do.
Again, if I'm wrong, I apologize. I just now realized you're just not like most Christians.
Also, I assure you I've made much larger mistakes than this one, but not in this thread.
apology accepted.
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