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Old 05-01-2024, 07:57 PM
 
19,904 posts, read 18,186,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Many of the founders were not Christian.
Not really. The overwhelming majority were Christians.

 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:04 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,897 posts, read 6,363,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I'm an atheist and also an honest reader of history. There is zero-point-zero doubt the US was built on Judeo-Christian values as key underpinnings.
Such as?
 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:05 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,897 posts, read 6,363,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
The entire Western Culture and law was mostly built on Christian principles, not just the USA.
Such as?
 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:25 PM
 
26,832 posts, read 22,632,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Such as?

Forgiveness, family values ( as in man a head of the family, idea of sin/no pre-marital sex/discouragement of children born out of wedlock,) no polygamy ( no multiple wives.)
Importance of belonging to a church, since church was organizational power of the given community. Service of poor through church, and guidance provided by clergy to parishioners if asked.

In case of US in particular - belief that money earned through hard work and good health are signs of God's blessing, therefore encouragement of hard honest work, as much as adherence to established laws.



Hope this helps.
 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:26 PM
 
11,855 posts, read 8,080,834 times
Reputation: 10020
Here's my honest opinion on the matter.

Christianity is real, however; America nor any nation follows the true principals of Christianity, not even Israel, a very liberal nation I might add, follows it. True Christianity has nothing to do with Liberalism or Conservatism, both serve god only in certain areas of their lives and defile him in others. There never was truly a nation that was fully dedicated to Christ. Israel per the Bible fell out of Gods command many times and were repaid with wrath.

There is no Christian nation, anywhere.. although it is safe to say that nations that adopt more of the biblical principals tend to be more prosperous than nations that forgo them altogether.. That stated, while America was founded on some principalities of Christ, its settlers were not what the Bible depicts as true Christians willing to lie down and sacrifice their lives for 'him'.

What we have instead are not nations that are dedicated to Christ, but rather individuals peppered sparsely through each nation who live their lives for him individualistically and quietly unless they are called for a purpose to spread the word or correct others. Living for Christ and saying you're a Christian or carry Christianity principals are fundamentally two different things.
 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:33 PM
 
18,216 posts, read 15,766,591 times
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The evangelical/christian narrative is one in which a Christian religious foundation is central to the forming of the United States. If you actually read the U.S. Constitution, you'll see that the founders did not consider any religion over any other religion and said the government (congress) cannot establish or prohibit the practice of religion. (That includes the practice of no religion or belief in God.)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:36 PM
 
4,221 posts, read 2,539,116 times
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The Mayflower Compact was only valid until it was superseded in 1621 when the Pilgrims received letters patent from the Council of New England.

Furthermore, there is a difference between the Pilgrims and Puritans. The Pilgrims arrived on the Mayflower and settled Plymouth, the Puritans went to Boston.

The Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, signed by President Adams and passed by Congress, full of the Founders specifically states in Article 11: “As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion..."

The founding principles of the US are in fact pagan. Democracy comes from pagan Greece. Trial by jury has its roots in ancient Egypt and pagan Europe. Religion is authoritarian, not democratic.

Many of the Virginia Founders' ancestors were refugees from the English Civil War which was a religious war. They sought to end the bickering as to who and what made a true faith. Were Quakers Christian? What of Baptists? What of Lutherans? What of Roman Catholics? That was a huge argument in the early Republic, at least in VA as the monopoly of the Church was ended. For more on how this played out in electoral politics read Founding Rivals: Madison vs. Monroe, The Bill of Rights, and The Election that Saved a Nation by DeRose.

Toleration became the byword, and that was not a traditional Christian value as dissenters were persecuted and denied basic rights.

May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants—while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.... Letter from George Washington to the Hebrew Congregation at Newport (1790). This was a radical idea the opposite of what Patrick Henry sought to impose in VA at the same time with only one recognized Christian denomination - Episcopal - and the others he sought to keep as heretical.

Last edited by webster; 05-01-2024 at 09:50 PM..
 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:40 PM
 
25,858 posts, read 16,571,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I keep hearing this but have yet to get an answer on what that means. What are these "Christian Principles" that our (if you are American) nation is built on?
It's not my job to inform people who ask ignorant, obtuse questions. Do your own homework.
 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:43 PM
 
26,832 posts, read 22,632,946 times
Reputation: 10054
Quote:
Originally Posted by lottamoxie View Post
The evangelical/christian narrative is one in which a Christian religious foundation is central to the forming of the United States. If you actually read the U.S. Constitution, you'll see that the founders did not consider any religion over any other religion and said the government (congress) cannot establish or prohibit the practice of religion. (That includes the practice of no religion or belief in God.)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."



"While the U.S. Constitution does not mention God, nearly all state constitutions reference either God or the divine, according to a 2017 analysis. God also appears in the Declaration of Independence, the Pledge of Allegiance and on U.S. currency."


https://www.google.com/search?client...ercise+thereof.

Last edited by erasure; 05-01-2024 at 09:54 PM..
 
Old 05-01-2024, 09:43 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,479 posts, read 47,229,720 times
Reputation: 34137
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
What's the principal behind this IYO? Do you believe whatever the underlying principal is it can only be found in Christianity?
When was the last time you heard about a cristian cutting off some women's breasts while she was still alive.
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