Claims of a nation built on Christian Principles (Iraq, school, leader)

[erasure]

Originally Posted by notnamed

Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.... During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
-James Madison

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-Thomas Jefferson

The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason.
-Benjamin Franklin

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
-Thomas Paine

...It would be more consistent that we call [the Bible] the work of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
-Thomas Paine

etc, etc, etc

Rather specifically to this thread:
The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature. . . . [In] the formation of the American governments . . . it will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of heaven. . . . These governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
-John Adams

Thank you, since I didn't have time to search for them.
I will be more than happy to comment on them, so hopefully by the time I'll be back the thread will be still here.

[Bungalove]

Originally Posted by PullMyFinger

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

People don’t know just how dark and hopeless the world was for the average Joe before Jesus’s short time on Earth. Of course any society based on individual rights and freedoms was a direct result of Jesus’s teachings which were like a foreign language at the time so many people were enslaved and severely oppressed.

Oh, I don't know. The Jews managed to endure a whole host of things before Jesus appearance.

[Ariadne22]

Originally Posted by notnamed

Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.... During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
-James Madison

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-Thomas Jefferson

The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason.
-Benjamin Franklin

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
-Thomas Paine

...It would be more consistent that we call [the Bible] the work of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
-Thomas Paine

etc, etc, etc

- Some things never change. I would venture to say, we in the US are even more stupid and ignorant today. We certainly don't have any serious thinkers of intellect as leaders. Rather, we glorify, worship and exalt the depraved.

People who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. And, man never learns.

[L8Gr8Apost8]

Originally Posted by Vector1

Assuming this is a real question, and assuming you are devoid of American history, our Founding Fathers were mostly Christian, and naturally they couldn't help but embody some fundamentally decent Christian values/morals of their faith.

I more wanted to see if people could answer what these values were.

[saltine]

You can find "The Almighty God" in Washingtons Thanksgiving proclamation
https://www.mountvernon.org/educatio...ation-of-1789/
Then we have Jefferson lamenting the studious Christian making the ideal American, etc and so on. The landscape literally dotted with old Christain Churches, which cemented practically every community. And here we are now.

[Ferd]

Its long but not a complete answer. however it is more than enough to prove the point. America was in fact founded on Christian principles and the Constitution is an invention of the Judeo-Christian ethos

John Adams: "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Noah Webster: "The moral principles and precepts contained in the scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible."

PA Delegate Governor Morris: "I believe that religion is the only solid base of morals, and that morals are the only possible support of free governments. Therefore education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man towards God."
George Washington: Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. ...[R]eason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality may prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

The framers spoke of the nature of man from a biblical perspective, that being men are of “failed nature” and thus in constructing the Constitution, they sought to counter this by creating co-equal branches of government that “checked” one another. Thus preventing the fallen nature of man from turning the nation into a totalitarian state.

The Constitution deals with immigration and was then spoken of, and intended to honor the Torah’s command to treat immigrants well.
(Liv 19)
Further, the requirement that the President be a natural born citizen is also a nod to the bible, as Israel is commanted to not allow a foreigner to rule over them.
(Deut. 17)
Article VI, Section 3 demands “no religious test”. That is not an attempt to separate religious belief from government. Rather, it is a protection for religious people so government cannot exclude them. At the time of the writing, this was understood to mean Christians… Nearly exclusively. We rightly expand that to include people of any faith, and no faith. However, it is utterly clear this was purely directed as a defense of Christian values.
The First Amendment prevents “Establisment” of religion. That has wrongly been used as a suggestion that the framers were opposed to Christian faith in government. That is utterly incorrect. This was a direct prevention of government selecting from the various sects, 1 that would become PART of the government, in the manner of the Church of England. Again, the framers were protecting FAITH, not the faithless.
(See Article VI Section 3)

There were 55 Constitutional Convention Delegates.
28 Episcopalian
8 Presbyterian
7 Congregationalists
2 Reformed
2 Lutheran
2 Methodists
2 Catholic

51 of the 55 were affiliated with some Christian sect by their own definition.
ALL of them came of age in a place and time where Christianity was a mainstay of social life. EVEN for those who looked to the Enlightenment for inspiration. Jefferson, known as a Diest understood the values of the Christian faith were the vital underpinning of society that even while he rejected the deity of Christ, put together his own bible which is still in print today.

Analysis of the writings of the founders show that in all their writings, they quoted the bible more than any other source. The other major sources of their quotations came from Montesquieu (a devout Catholic), Blackstone (A devout Anglican) and Locke (A professed but undefined Christian)

Further the first, second and fourth amendments to the Constitution clearly show intent by the framers that rights are not extended by Government, rather that Rights pre-exist and pointing to the Declaration of Independence, that existence is established by higher power.

And then there is English Common Law. There are two primary factors that matter.
1. The United States legal system is based on English Common Law.
2. English Common Law is heavily influenced by Christianity.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by Ferd

John Adams: "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Ain't that the truth. We're living through the proof of that statement right now.

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by erasure

Nah, just putting the "way of thinking" into the context of THOSE times, not the modern days.

THOSE times were the heady days of the Enlightenment, birth of the Age of Reason. Sure, the average Joe would hit the pews without too much thought, but the thinkers of those days - and the Founders counted quite a few among them - were all about rationalism, empiricism, government based on natural rights - not the Divine Right of Kings.

There's a reason there's no mention of deities or Christianity in the Constitution. And it's not because they forgot.

Likewise - what do you think "All men are born equal" meant in the country, built on slavery?

Funnily enough, that one was easily tackled by appealing to Christianity. Paul has some very clear statements on slavery, after all. (In short: Deal with it and get your reward in Heaven.) Besides, slavery was a chance for the benighted heathens to learn the One True Word and gain eternal salvation.

Jefferson, to name one, hated the institution - "hideous blot" was the word he used. (Not enough to not participate, mind.)

[AnywhereElse]

Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8

I keep hearing this but have yet to get an answer on what that means. What are these "Christian Principles" that our (if you are American) nation is built on?

Judeo-Christian principles. what the people coming believed at that time. I am just not sure what you are trying to get at with your question. A simple "Google" of your question will bring up the history.

I do think that religion itself reflects what "values" were determined to be worthwhile for a civilized group of people.

So, I really have no idea what your question is, as do you not know what "Christian Principles" are? Did you have US History and US Government in high school?

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

Judeo-Christian principles. what the people coming believed at that time. I am just not sure what you are trying to get at with your question. A simple "Google" of your question will bring up the history.

I do think that religion itself reflects what "values" were determined to be worthwhile for a civilized group of people.

So, I really have no idea what your question is, as do you not know what "Christian Principles" are? Did you have US History and US Government in high school?

Well, for a whole lot of people during the 18th century, it was a rock solid Christian principle that your monarch was placed by God to rule over you and questioning his right to exercise that authority wasn't just borderline criminal against your King, but it was a direct offense to God. I'd say the Founders flipped the bird pretty solidly at that.