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I've never really understood the Republican/conservative equals good debate. If anything it's just the quality of leadership and foresight. Texas is a great example. It's fine for now... but in the near future it will face some serious problems. It's been leading the nation in "job growth" for sure, but the majority of those jobs don't exactly pay the bills. It has the largest number of people living below the poverty line, and has the highest percentage of people in that bracket too. Its job creation rate is actually lower than its population growth. It is quickly becoming one of the worst states for income disparity. Unless Texas plans smarter, it will have some severe obstacles to overcome in the future.
I don't know what impact more liberals could or would have on Oklahoma, especially if politicians start gerrymandering districts to keep their party in power. You also have people like me who won't vote in Oklahoma. In federal elections, I don't see a point because the Republican will win anyway. In local elections, I really just don't care because I don't intend to live here long-term.
That also brings me to my next point: how many are going to stay? I came to Oklahoma because I had no choice and it just hasn't grown on me, nor will it ever be home. I highly doubt I'm the only one in this position, and when the economy improves (or when a job pops up) I'll leave. I know it's strictly apocryphal, but I was reading about the people who moved to North Dakota for work... and long-time residents said they always get a surge of new residents when the economy tanks, then an exodus when it recovers. It's entirely possible when California's economy is healthy, former residents will return. Aside from Texas the states that get the majority of California transplants are Arizona, Nevada, Oregon and Washington. Californians are staying close for a reason, whether it be to stay near friends/family or to easily move back under better economic circumstances.
I think a lot of people who came back to Oklahoma from out there had some roots here going back to the 30s and 40s. Before the last housing crash a lot of them cashed in their California equity and were able to retire here on that.
As far as the liberal influx. It's just not going to happen here. You can look at any map and liberals like big progressive cities, nice weather and/or scenery. Oklahoma is nicer than people think it is (not completely flat and tumbleweed ridden), but it's not nice enough to generate mass migration here of any type. People that are willing to come to this type of climate and topography end up in DFW.
I think most Californians like the states you mentioned best because they have nice scenery and/or temperate weather. The also seem to be moving to Utah, Idaho, Montana, western Wyoming, New Mexico and of course Colorado.
In Texas it seems like they go to Austin. However states like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South and North Dakota miss out. Just to plane jane I guess.
Oklahoma City, being probably the most conservative large city in the nation, is that way primarily because it has missed out on the Sunbelt boom enjoyed by cities like Austin, DFW, Nashville, Charlotte, etc. Many of those cities, except for maybe Austin, were conservative prior to the influx of liberal transplants. Most of the inmigration to OKC is at the expense of rural Oklahoma and Wichita, KS. The reason is like Eddie said. OKC is nicer than its perceived to be, but it isn't quite nice enough to make people want to move there if there are other options. I'm hoping there isn't a mass exodus from this city when the national economy improves but it is possible. DFW, on the other hand, has many of the same negatives but offers infinitely more in the way of amenities so its a better trade off. The city is doing things right and is constantly improving, but its going to take more improvement as well as time to change the national perception and create a city that will do better at attracting transplants.
The question is, what are the benefits to becoming a more transient city? I personally prefer cities that are a little more transient than OKC. I find it easier to socialize and find my place than in majority-native cities among other things, but my preference doesn't mean that's what I think OKC should become if its citizens don't want it.
Oklahoma City, being probably the most conservative large city in the nation, is that way primarily because it has missed out on the Sunbelt boom enjoyed by cities like Austin, DFW, Nashville, Charlotte, etc. Many of those cities, except for maybe Austin, were conservative prior to the influx of liberal transplants. Most of the inmigration to OKC is at the expense of rural Oklahoma and Wichita, KS. The reason is like Eddie said. OKC is nicer than its perceived to be, but it isn't quite nice enough to make people want to move there if there are other options. I'm hoping there isn't a mass exodus from this city when the national economy improves but it is possible. DFW, on the other hand, has many of the same negatives but offers infinitely more in the way of amenities so its a better trade off. The city is doing things right and is constantly improving, but its going to take more improvement as well as time to change the national perception and create a city that will do better at attracting transplants.
The question is, what are the benefits to becoming a more transient city? I personally prefer cities that are a little more transient than OKC. I find it easier to socialize and find my place than in majority-native cities among other things, but my preference doesn't mean that's what I think OKC should become if its citizens don't want it.
Very astute. I think OKCs growth will occur if and when the Texas cities are perceived to be too crowded.
I don't know if and when that will ever happen and if Oklahoma corporate tax policy will allow it to happen. As it is, we just need to hope the oil field stays up until they get all the downtown stuff done and get the roads widened.
I think a lot of people who came back to Oklahoma from out there had some roots here going back to the 30s and 40s. Before the last housing crash a lot of them cashed in their California equity and were able to retire here on that.
As far as the liberal influx. It's just not going to happen here. You can look at any map and liberals like big progressive cities, nice weather and/or scenery. Oklahoma is nicer than people think it is (not completely flat and tumbleweed ridden), but it's not nice enough to generate mass migration here of any type. People that are willing to come to this type of climate and topography end up in DFW.
I think most Californians like the states you mentioned best because they have nice scenery and/or temperate weather. The also seem to be moving to Utah, Idaho, Montana, western Wyoming, New Mexico and of course Colorado.
In Texas it seems like they go to Austin. However states like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South and North Dakota miss out. Just to plane jane I guess.
Along with the bolded, I would add Arkansas to that list. A lot of potential transplants think Arkansas is beautiful, but generally won't make the jump (at least on a mass scale) due to the "plain jane" assessment.
And, I'm guessing most Arkies are like most Okies I know: we're fine with the transplants transplanting themselves in some other state. :-)
Along with the bolded, I would add Arkansas to that list. A lot of potential transplants think Arkansas is beautiful, but generally won't make the jump (at least on a mass scale) due to the "plain jane" assessment.
And, I'm guessing most Arkies are like most Okies I know: we're fine with the transplants transplanting themselves in some other state. :-)
NW Arkansas is a pretty transient area. Tons of transplants were relocating there in up until the mid-2000s. I believe the growth has slowed but it had a pretty good run for a while.
Little Rock is more like OKC in that most of its transplants come from the rest of Arkansas and not out of state.
I've never really understood the Republican/conservative equals good debate. If anything it's just the quality of leadership and foresight. Texas is a great example. It's fine for now... but in the near future it will face some serious problems. It's been leading the nation in "job growth" for sure, but the majority of those jobs don't exactly pay the bills. It has the largest number of people living below the poverty line, and has the highest percentage of people in that bracket too. Its job creation rate is actually lower than its population growth. It is quickly becoming one of the worst states for income disparity. Unless Texas plans smarter, it will have some severe obstacles to overcome in the future.
I don't know what impact more liberals could or would have on Oklahoma, especially if politicians start gerrymandering districts to keep their party in power. You also have people like me who won't vote in Oklahoma. In federal elections, I don't see a point because the Republican will win anyway. In local elections, I really just don't care because I don't intend to live here long-term.
That also brings me to my next point: how many are going to stay? I came to Oklahoma because I had no choice and it just hasn't grown on me, nor will it ever be home. I highly doubt I'm the only one in this position, and when the economy improves (or when a job pops up) I'll leave. I know it's strictly apocryphal, but I was reading about the people who moved to North Dakota for work... and long-time residents said they always get a surge of new residents when the economy tanks, then an exodus when it recovers. It's entirely possible when California's economy is healthy, former residents will return. Aside from Texas the states that get the majority of California transplants are Arizona, Nevada, Oregon and Washington. Californians are staying close for a reason, whether it be to stay near friends/family or to easily move back under better economic circumstances.
All of this depends on why one moved. It's assumed most moved for a job or to wait out the mess or for other than California not being California anymore.
I like that I can afford so much more but that is not *why*.
I moved to get away from the crowd. There are simply too many people living in socal. I would move up to far norcal but there's other old memories and I wanted a complete change of scenery. I came here to visit a friend or I might never have thought of it.
If California gets its act together I'll be happy, but I won't move back. I'll be happy since family live there and my son will be going to school there. But the two biggest things I liked about here still hold and should for a long time. There are not a crush of people. And the air isn't filled with grey goop. I couldn't walk a block there without breathing problems and here I don't have any.
With elections, I believe in ending the electoral college and using strict popular vote. That means the liberal in OK and the far right guy in Berkley both have an equal say with the community. As it SHOULD be.
Last edited by nightbird47; 02-19-2013 at 02:14 AM..
I've never really understood the Republican/conservative equals good debate. If anything it's just the quality of leadership and foresight. Texas is a great example. It's fine for now... but in the near future it will face some serious problems. It's been leading the nation in "job growth" for sure, but the majority of those jobs don't exactly pay the bills. It has the largest number of people living below the poverty line, and has the highest percentage of people in that bracket too. Its job creation rate is actually lower than its population growth. It is quickly becoming one of the worst states for income disparity. Unless Texas plans smarter, it will have some severe obstacles to overcome in the future.
I don't know what impact more liberals could or would have on Oklahoma, especially if politicians start gerrymandering districts to keep their party in power. You also have people like me who won't vote in Oklahoma. In federal elections, I don't see a point because the Republican will win anyway. In local elections, I really just don't care because I don't intend to live here long-term.
That also brings me to my next point: how many are going to stay? I came to Oklahoma because I had no choice and it just hasn't grown on me, nor will it ever be home. I highly doubt I'm the only one in this position, and when the economy improves (or when a job pops up) I'll leave. I know it's strictly apocryphal, but I was reading about the people who moved to North Dakota for work... and long-time residents said they always get a surge of new residents when the economy tanks, then an exodus when it recovers. It's entirely possible when California's economy is healthy, former residents will return. Aside from Texas the states that get the majority of California transplants are Arizona, Nevada, Oregon and Washington. Californians are staying close for a reason, whether it be to stay near friends/family or to easily move back under better economic circumstances.
LOL so in other words you couldn't cut it at home and left. You are a reverse Okie. You may be stuck here for a long long while. California is under one party rule and the Democrats have run that place into the ground. It will only continue to get worse.
I think a lot of people who came back to Oklahoma from out there had some roots here going back to the 30s and 40s. Before the last housing crash a lot of them cashed in their California equity and were able to retire here on that.
As far as the liberal influx. It's just not going to happen here. You can look at any map and liberals like big progressive cities, nice weather and/or scenery. Oklahoma is nicer than people think it is (not completely flat and tumbleweed ridden), but it's not nice enough to generate mass migration here of any type. People that are willing to come to this type of climate and topography end up in DFW.
I think most Californians like the states you mentioned best because they have nice scenery and/or temperate weather. The also seem to be moving to Utah, Idaho, Montana, western Wyoming, New Mexico and of course Colorado.
In Texas it seems like they go to Austin. However states like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South and North Dakota miss out. Just to plane jane I guess.
This is the typical post from the Tulsa or OKC native that has never ventured out of their little enclave. Thanks for lumping us in with North freakin Dakota -as if that is anything like OK
This is the typical post from the Tulsa or OKC native that has never ventured out of their little enclave. Thanks for lumping us in with North freakin Dakota -as if that is anything like OK
I don expect you to know where in OK this is
Sardis Lake south of Wilburton. Very beautiful area. Also poor and truthfully very backwards. And pretty southern. Nice place to drive through, but you wouldn’t want to stay long.
That area is not the definition of Oklahoma, it’s a very small slice of Oklahoma. There are probably less than 100k people in southeast Oklahoma and more than 2.3 million in the two metros.
Sardis Lake south of Wilburton. Very beautiful area. Also poor and truthfully very backwards. And pretty southern. Nice place to drive through, but you wouldn’t want to stay long.
That area is not the definition of Oklahoma, it’s a very small slice of Oklahoma. There are probably less than 100k people in southeast Oklahoma and more than 2.3 million in the two metros.
Dude, the entire eastern half of Oklahoma is green and wooded. From NE all the way down to Idabel you will find lakes and areas like that. This goes for OKC's east side all the way to the Arkansas border. As for population, there is almost no one in western and northwestern OK. Along the Kansas border = no one. Yet this is what you would consider "real Oklahoma." That is nonsense. LOL definition of Oklahoma.
As for southern...you say that like it is a bad thing. Most of Oklahoma has a southern tilt to it. Good people, great culture.
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