Battle of the three 2nd tier cities: Toledo, Dayton, Akron (Hamilton: section 8, sale)

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

And that's what I said in my original post. Metro Dayton is good, downtown Dayton is good, the city of Dayton sucks.

That was my experience after living in Linden Heights for a couple of years. There are a few nice neighborhoods in Dayton proper but not many and even the nice areas run up against blight and abandonment. It helps that they have knocked down a lot of derelict building on the East End, but now it's the land of vacant lots...which is better than abandos. Metro Dayton is much nicer and actually has jobs for folks. Dayton proper economy sucks and was dealt its death kneel by NCR leaving and the Moraine GM plant closing in 2008-2010 neighborhood. Linden Heights was nice but where I lived was really near Twin Towers which is a sterling example of an Appalachian Ghetto, but so it goes on the east end. West Dayton is awful and you gotta be careful over there. Closest I ever came to being robbed was on Victor Ave in the Santa Clara neighborhood, which is mostly vacant. Had two cars come flying up behind me and one tried to pass me so he could pull in front of me while the other was on my bumper...before they could curb me, I stomped on the gas flying through stop signs and traffic lights to get back on North Main. The would be robbers couldve cared less and in my rearview I could see them both pull over waiting for the next sucker. City of Dayton sucks but has a few dimming bright spots, but that's about as good as it gets.

[Tex?Il?]

So on further research, I would say that I would stick to my original opinion that Toledo, with its larger city proper population, its waterfront and skyline, its cultural amenities (like its art museum) being considered more on par with similar museums in the three C's, might have the edge over the other two in terms of city proper.

However, based on what I can tell the other two (Dayton and Akron) make up for it in the broader metro region and slightly beyond.

Toledo is more geographically isolated, in the sense of not having quite the charming towns that can be found outside the other two, and is in a region that is about as scenic as Kansas. (the landscape surrounding is pancake flat endless corn and soybean fields).

Greater Akron has amazing college towns like Kent just to the west, and charming historic affluent towns that date back to the original Connecticut Western Reserve era like Hudson. Those places are a bright spot in an otherwise economically depressed region.

Dayton has one the largest AFB, Wright-Patterson, that has spurred the creation of a university (Wright state), a major AF museum, and many other defense contract businesses all which bring in more fresh faces to the region that otherwise would be stagnant and stale. And being commutable distance to Yellow Springs, one of the few rural villages with a history as a liberal art colony/hippie commune, something that you would be more likely to see in say New England or the west coast.

The area surrounding Toledo doesn't have this. (yes I guess there are tourist spots on Lake Erie and the college town of Bowling Green, but I don't think those have the outside draw as the aforementioned spots).

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by North 42

I think all three of these cities are kind of satellite cities, Dayton to Cincinnati, Toledo to Detroit and Akron to Cleveland. I’m much more familiar with Toledo than the other two, so I’m not sure which one would take this.

Growing up in Toledo and still having ties there, I think Detroit/Toledo has the weakest link of these three pairs.

Aside from DTW airport, there's not a whole lot of tie in. There's a solid stretch of rural areas between the two cities. The local sports fandom is influenced by Detroit, but by no means exclusively about Detroit teams. It's just a tad too far for any significant inter-city commuting. Besides the airport I literally never even visited Detroit until I was 18 or 19, despite having lived in Toledo my whole life up to that point.

Occasionally you'd hear about somebody going to a museum or concert in Detroit. But people would also go to Cleveland or even Chicago for that too.

Now living in metro Cleveland, I feel that the ties to Akron are a lot stronger. It's close enough that people do cross-commute. It's close enough that it doesn't feel like a special trip to go visit a destination in the other city (~40m vs ~1hr).

Dayton I can't speak to, but as often as "Cin-Day" gets mentioned, I get the impression it's a fairly strong connection.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Dayton I can't speak to, but as often as "Cin-Day" gets mentioned, I get the impression it's a fairly strong connection.

There is. Dayton kind of has the red-headed stepchild syndrome, and a lot of folks who are from there hate Cincy for some reason or another. I live in Cincy and have lived in Dayton. Dayton's job market sucks, and there are a lot of folks from Middletown and Dayton who commute to Cincy. The cities between Dayton and Cincy have all grown together one way or another, not necessarily in a contiguous way, but they are close and a lot of traffic goes between them. On the other hand, this entire area is insular and a lot of folks around here are somewhat parochial...def. Some nimby types around here too, but overall there is a good amount of traffic between the two cities. So yeah it's a thing and a lot of folks discount that reality because the government hasn't recognized it yet, but it is what it is, it's definitely a reality.

[Losfrisco]

Toledo as a stand alone city with Dayton behind it.

I'd probably pick Akron though because its in northeast Ohio which wins regionally.

[woxyroxme]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Dayton I can't speak to, but as often as "Cin-Day" gets mentioned, I get the impression it's a fairly strong connection.

That was just one poster on the forum who was banned years ago.

It’s still a 55 mile drive that takes you from one region of the country to another.

[PerryMason614]

Originally Posted by woxyroxme

That was just one poster on the forum who was banned years ago.

It’s still a 55 mile drive that takes you from one region of the country to another.

forget that it's quite a hall to the other side of the Cincinnati Metro that lies in Kentucky. It's might be 70 or 75 mi away from downtown Dayton.

.

[Karl Lagos]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

forget that it's quite a hall to the other side of the Cincinnati Metro that lies in Kentucky. It's might be 70 or 75 mi away from downtown Dayton.

.

It's 54 miles between the 2 downtowns. The connection between Cincy and Dayton is really once you get north of 275 in Cincy. From West Chester up to Dayton it's a really short drive especially to 675 Centerville.
There are companies, law firms that have an office in this area and they can call it their Dayton or Cincy office.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Toledo is more geographically isolated, in the sense of not having quite the charming towns that can be found outside the other two, and is in a region that is about as scenic as Kansas. (the landscape surrounding is pancake flat endless corn and soybean fields).

...

The area surrounding Toledo doesn't have this. (yes I guess there are tourist spots on Lake Erie and the college town of Bowling Green, but I don't think those have the outside draw as the aforementioned spots).

I have to say, discounting Lake Erie and the islands is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here.

There's definitely a lot of surrounding farmland, but also Oak Openings, Magee and Metzger Marshes (big destinations for birders), Maumee Bay, and an excellent metropark system (which is something that all of Ohio is particularly strong in, compared to the rest of the US). Natural areas of the Maumee River are extremely accessible, so there is good access for fishing or kayaking. Grand Rapids, OH is a small touristy town for that sort of thing, although access within Toledo and the immediate suburbs is good as well.

If you count things as "far away" as Put-in-Bay or Cedar Point there's some major tourist draws there as well.

[kpl1228]

Regarding the aforementioned Cin-day "red-headed stepchild" relationship, all three of these 2nd Tier cities have that exact "little brother" relationship with a much larger metro approx. 1 hour's drive away.
Many in Akron hate that they get lumped in with Cleveland. Lebron, Chrissie Hynde, and other Akronites have strongly pointed out in books and interviews that they are distinctly from AKRON, not Cleveland. (Hynde said in her book "Cleveland is a disaster area, and besides, I'm from Akron." that sums up the view of many Akronites.)
When I taught some night classes at The University of Akron, I used Cleveland as an example for something, and a student said "hey we're not in Cleveland, we're in Akron!" Duly noted.
Blossom Music Center becomes a territorial battlefield of ownership and bragging rights, for example, as does the national park. Garrison Keilor's Prairie Home Companion made the mistake of saying they were broadcasting from Blossom Music Center in Cleveland, Ohio, and 30 minutes later cleared it up by saying it's halfway between Cleveland and Akron (someone from Akron probably got to him).
(Off-topic, but Cedar Point is closer to Toledo yet gets claimed by Cleveland as another "fun thing to do in Cleveland." Ridiculous!)