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I'm a 40 year old single black man from Southeastern Michigan (I realize that last part might "offend" a lot of you due to the Michigan-Ohio interstate rivalry ... oh well ) I completed my undergraduate degree from a university in SE Michigan as well. I currently live in Southern California. Since 2009, I have been making a living in the manual labor industry.
I've decided to attend graduate school and work on a master's degree in a field that is aligned with my interests and talents. Youngstown State University offers a graduate program that I'm very interested in. I like the curriculum. From images and videos, the YSU campus seems pretty nice. I've been researching other universities as well (I posted a similar thread in the Boise, ID city-data forum concerning Boise State University and the Boise area in general.)
I've traveled through Youngstown once back in 2014. Back in the 90's, I visited Cleveland several times during summer family trips (I was a teenager.) I've been to Cedar Pointe once ... even though I'm not a roller coaster person. I've visited Toledo at least a couple of time. I've been through Columbus, Cincinatti, and Dayton on previous road trips. I'm going to assume the culture in Youngstown and NE Ohio in general is not all that different from the culture in SE Michigan. I really don't have any questions in that area.
Aside from YSU, I actually like the fact that Youngstown is a mid-sized city (which was also one of the reasons why I was looking at Boise.) I prefer living in a less-crowded area. It seems like Youngstown isn't a tourist destination, which is not a bad thing. I noticed that the cost of living is very affordable and there's definitely not a shortage of housing.
I don't have a vehicle. How is the bus system in Youngstown? I've read that downtown Youngstown (including YSU), the West side of Youngstown, and (generally) the North side of Youngstown are decent places to live. How accurate is that assessment? If I choose Youngstown, it looks like I'd be better off residing in the downtown area ... hopefully, within walking distance of YSU.
I appreciate and look forward to reading your responses.
We have a regular contributor on this forum named "JR_C" who lives in Youngstown. If I'm not mistaken (s)he resides just north of Downtown in the Wick Park neighborhood, and hopefully (s)he will contribute soon to help on things I can't comment on (i.e. public transit, for starters). I find the neighborhoods just to the north of Downtown (Wick Park and North Heights) to be some of the most desirable in the whole city. Brier Hill is also adjacent to these neighborhoods, but I find it less desirable because it has a lot of missing homes (i.e. "gap teeth") due to neglect and feels semi-abandoned like much of the rest of the city's residential neighborhoods. I also like Downtown Youngtown itself, which has been revitalizing nicely in recent years. Schenley is another decent urban neighborhood just northwest of Downtown and is home to Fellows Riverside Gardens (free botanical gardens), Lake Glacier, and much of Mill Creek Park.
Youngstown gets a bad rap overall, but it is trying to recover. Some of the nice things about it is that it is DIRT cheap for housing (albeit modern luxury apartments are about on part with anywhere else these days). It does, in fact, feel "less crowded", too. We like to go to Youngstown because they have a great free art museum (Butler Institute of American Art), the aforementioned Fellow Riverside Gardens (also free), and the Mill Creek Park with Lanternman's Mill (also free). We have never found any of these amenities to be crowded. We also occasionally hit up the miles of chain retail/restaurants along U.S. Route 224 in Boardman and find it to be less crowded than we are used to in similar suburban strips here in Pittsburgh. There is also a great farm market just outside of suburban Canfield called White House Fruit Farms that has delicious apples, pies, donuts, veggies, cheeses, etc. The last time we were there it was so crowded they had police officers directing traffic. White House Fruit Farms is probably the only thing in Greater Youngstown that gets THAT packed on weekends.
Another good thing about Youngstown is it is an easy day-trip to either Cleveland or Pittsburgh for a big city fix. Youngstown seems to have a lot of Steelers fans AND Browns fans, so I am guessing people in Youngstown are evenly-split with their affinity for either city.
To answer your question directly I would look to rent in Downtown Youngstown, Wick Park, North Heights, Schenley, and Brier Hill, in that order. JR_C might have a different way to arrange those neighborhoods.
We have a regular contributor on this forum named "JR_C" who lives in Youngstown. If I'm not mistaken (s)he resides just north of Downtown in the Wick Park neighborhood, and hopefully (s)he will contribute soon to help on things I can't comment on (i.e. public transit, for starters). I find the neighborhoods just to the north of Downtown (Wick Park and North Heights) to be some of the most desirable in the whole city. Brier Hill is also adjacent to these neighborhoods, but I find it less desirable because it has a lot of missing homes (i.e. "gap teeth") due to neglect and feels semi-abandoned like much of the rest of the city's residential neighborhoods. I also like Downtown Youngtown itself, which has been revitalizing nicely in recent years. Schenley is another decent urban neighborhood just northwest of Downtown and is home to Fellows Riverside Gardens (free botanical gardens), Lake Glacier, and much of Mill Creek Park.
Youngstown gets a bad rap overall, but it is trying to recover. Some of the nice things about it is that it is DIRT cheap for housing (albeit modern luxury apartments are about on part with anywhere else these days). It does, in fact, feel "less crowded", too. We like to go to Youngstown because they have a great free art museum (Butler Institute of American Art), the aforementioned Fellow Riverside Gardens (also free), and the Mill Creek Park with Lanternman's Mill (also free). We have never found any of these amenities to be crowded. We also occasionally hit up the miles of chain retail/restaurants along U.S. Route 224 in Boardman and find it to be less crowded than we are used to in similar suburban strips here in Pittsburgh. There is also a great farm market just outside of suburban Canfield called White House Fruit Farms that has delicious apples, pies, donuts, veggies, cheeses, etc. The last time we were there it was so crowded they had police officers directing traffic. White House Fruit Farms is probably the only thing in Greater Youngstown that gets THAT packed on weekends.
Another good thing about Youngstown is it is an easy day-trip to either Cleveland or Pittsburgh for a big city fix. Youngstown seems to have a lot of Steelers fans AND Browns fans, so I am guessing people in Youngstown are evenly-split with their affinity for either city.
To answer your question directly I would look to rent in Downtown Youngstown, Wick Park, North Heights, Schenley, and Brier Hill, in that order. JR_C might have a different way to arrange those neighborhoods.
Thank you for your response, SteelCityRising. Your post definitely raised my interest level in Youngstown. I noticed the art museum you mentioned is right on the YSU campus and is (architecturally) a very nice building. A number of people have mentioned Mill Creek park, which does seem like a cool spot. I want to live in a nice neighborhood, and I'm glad to see there's some good options ... that also happen to be located in the downtown/YSU area.
I'd probably avoid discussing sports with a lot of the people in Youngstown. I'm still a fan of the teams I grew up rooting for in Southeastern Michigan ... including (what Ohio folks refer to as) "That Team Up North." I'm assuming a lot of Youngstown residents are Buckeye fans.
Last edited by Jay Reese; 11-18-2022 at 02:34 PM..
IF you're planning to work while studying for your degree, perhaps check out Cleveland State University to see if it offers a similar degree. What is the degree?
Have you checked out how long you must live in Ohio to qualify for in-state tuition?
My thinking is that the wages for part-time work in downtown Cleveland may be sufficiently higher to offset any additional cost of living. Just speculation on my part.
What isn't speculation is that Cleveland has much better mass transit, especially the Cleveland State campus which has the 24/7 Healthline bus rapid running through the heart of the campus. Cleveland also has three rail rapid lines. CSU students get RTA passes.
There's also a full service supermarket (Heinen's) a couple blocks from the CSU campus and on the Healthline route. There is much, much more to do in Cleveland. E.g., Playhouse Square, one of the best theater complexes in the U.S., is adjacent to CSU; Playhouse Square offers $10 smart tickets. MLB, NBA, and NFL teams play downtown. The Healthline connects CSU to University Circle, one of the nation's leading cultural centers; the Cleveland Museum of Art has free general admission and other institutions offer significant student discounts. The Healthline also connects CSU to the Cleveland Clinic's main campus; it's one of the nation's top-ranked medical centers.
Cleveland also likely has a much larger professional African American population than Youngstown.
While Cleveland has a significantly higher population density than Youngstown, I don't know anybody who would describe it as crowded, especially downtown which has a much lower population density than other Cleveland neighborhoods. The downtown population density in 2020 likely is much higher than in this listing because the downtown population now is near 20,000, which explains how it can support a full-service supermarket. Cleveland's overall population now is only 373,000, down from over 900,000 in 1950 and 506,000 in 1990, however; it's a city built for a much greater population.
BTW, very, very few persons would be offended that you're from Michigan, even though they might tease you about it during football season. I suspect the Browns/Steelers rivalry is more intense in Youngstown than the Buckeyes/Wolverines rivalry.
At my previous job, I had a co-worker who got his bachelors degree from OSU, but then went to the University of Michigan to get his masters. As others have said, you're likely to get a little teasing, but that's it. I'm not really into sports, but I believe the pro football loyalty is split between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. At the college level, I think OSU pretty much dominates. As for baseball, there are probably more Cleveland fans than Pirates fans, but there are some Pirates fans around.
I live in the Wick Park neighborhood, just north of YSU. (from Fifth Ave. to Wick Ave. and north to about Fairgreen Ave., but our northern boundary is pretty blurry) Most of the college students--who don't live with their parents--either live in this neighborhood, downtown, or in a dorm. Both downtown and the Wick Park neighborhood are walkable to campus. But, although downtown may be a little closer to the center of campus as the crow flies, I feel that the change in elevation between Commerce Street and Wood Street make downtown feel farther away. I've walked to and from downtown through the YSU campus many times, and that hill gets me every time!
I don't have a feel for what's available to rent in the area, so I took a quick look at apartments.com. From what I saw there, and from what I've heard over the years, the downtown apartments that are more affordable, are geared toward college students. So, it might be more like living in a dorm. In the Wick Park neighborhood, many of the larger old Victorian and Edwardian houses were divided into apartments, in addition to some classic apartment buildings. Rents are generally cheaper, but you might have to be careful of the landlord, because some are more interested in collecting a rent check than providing a decent place to live.
I don't drive, so one of the things I liked about the Wick Park neighborhood was the bus service. https://www.wrtaonline.com/ Their fixed route maps don't seem to be working at the moment, but they use the MyStop app, and I think you can look at the routes with that, too: https://myvalleystops.wrtaonline.com/InfoPoint/ Fixed routes only run every hour. But, the #1 Elm St. and the #6 Fifth Ave. are offset so that there is a bus every half hour. (all fixed routes leave the station at either ten minutes after the hour or forty minutes after the hour) And, both routes go over to the Belmont Ave. commercial corridor, where you'll find the usual fast food places, Walmart, pharmacies, etc. Also, service is now free. Having said all that, I now work from home, and am a homebody, so I rarely take the bus anymore.
Before moving to the Wick Park neighborhood, I lived on the West side, close to Fellows Riverside Gardens. While I loved living in that neighborhood, and being close to the park and gardens, I don't feel it was as walkable or transit friendly. While three fixed bus routes serve that side of the city: #4 Steel St., #9 Austintown, and #11 Cornersburg, the #4 and #11 are more like neighborhood routes, and have very circuitous routes that aren't very efficient.
I do want to be clear, though. While I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the region, the Wick Park neighborhood is still rough around the edges. I've had my house in this neighborhood for over 10 years, and I was burglarized once. (I worked on it for two years, before moving in, never had a problem in that time) And, some of my neighbors have lived here twice as long, and have never had anything bad happen. But, I've heard stories of other people living here, and being the victim of a crime multiple times. So, it's hit or miss. In the summer, with all my windows open, I will sometimes hear distant gun fire. You either get used to it, realizing that it's across the Crab Creek valley, and happening on the east side. Or, you decide you can't stand it, and choose to live somewhere else. We have a neighborhood Facebook page, and a NextDoor page where we talk about any local problems that may need addressed.
I'm writing this at the end of a long week, so I hope everyone was able to follow my ramblings. But, I have a couple other comments/thoughts that didn't fit anywhere.
The original building of the Butler Institute of American Art was designed by the renowned architectural firm of McKim Meade and White.
Jay Reese, I looked at your other thread, and while Boise may be more libertarian, Youngstown is definitely more liberal, although it gets more conservative, the further from the city you get.
IF you're planning to work while studying for your degree, perhaps check out Cleveland State University to see if it offers a similar degree. What is the degree?
Have you checked out how long you must live in Ohio to qualify for in-state tuition?
My thinking is that the wages for part-time work in downtown Cleveland may be sufficiently higher to offset any additional cost of living. Just speculation on my part.
What isn't speculation is that Cleveland has much better mass transit, especially the Cleveland State campus which has the 24/7 Healthline bus rapid running through the heart of the campus. Cleveland also has three rail rapid lines. CSU students get RTA passes.
There's also a full service supermarket (Heinen's) a couple blocks from the CSU campus and on the Healthline route. There is much, much more to do in Cleveland. E.g., Playhouse Square, one of the best theater complexes in the U.S., is adjacent to CSU; Playhouse Square offers $10 smart tickets. MLB, NBA, and NFL teams play downtown. The Healthline connects CSU to University Circle, one of the nation's leading cultural centers; the Cleveland Museum of Art has free general admission and other institutions offer significant student discounts. The Healthline also connects CSU to the Cleveland Clinic's main campus; it's one of the nation's top-ranked medical centers.
Cleveland also likely has a much larger professional African American population than Youngstown.
While Cleveland has a significantly higher population density than Youngstown, I don't know anybody who would describe it as crowded, especially downtown which has a much lower population density than other Cleveland neighborhoods. The downtown population density in 2020 likely is much higher than in this listing because the downtown population now is near 20,000, which explains how it can support a full-service supermarket. Cleveland's overall population now is only 373,000, down from over 900,000 in 1950 and 506,000 in 1990, however; it's a city built for a much greater population.
BTW, very, very few persons would be offended that you're from Michigan, even though they might tease you about it during football season. I suspect the Browns/Steelers rivalry is more intense in Youngstown than the Buckeyes/Wolverines rivalry.
Thank you for the suggestion, WRnative. I searched the Cleveland State University website, and discovered that they don't offer the graduate program I'm looking for. I believe they offer a graduate certificate for that field, but I want to study in a regular master's level program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C
My reputation precedes me, ha!
At my previous job, I had a co-worker who got his bachelors degree from OSU, but then went to the University of Michigan to get his masters. As others have said, you're likely to get a little teasing, but that's it. I'm not really into sports, but I believe the pro football loyalty is split between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. At the college level, I think OSU pretty much dominates. As for baseball, there are probably more Cleveland fans than Pirates fans, but there are some Pirates fans around.
I live in the Wick Park neighborhood, just north of YSU. (from Fifth Ave. to Wick Ave. and north to about Fairgreen Ave., but our northern boundary is pretty blurry) Most of the college students--who don't live with their parents--either live in this neighborhood, downtown, or in a dorm. Both downtown and the Wick Park neighborhood are walkable to campus. But, although downtown may be a little closer to the center of campus as the crow flies, I feel that the change in elevation between Commerce Street and Wood Street make downtown feel farther away. I've walked to and from downtown through the YSU campus many times, and that hill gets me every time!
I don't have a feel for what's available to rent in the area, so I took a quick look at apartments.com. From what I saw there, and from what I've heard over the years, the downtown apartments that are more affordable, are geared toward college students. So, it might be more like living in a dorm. In the Wick Park neighborhood, many of the larger old Victorian and Edwardian houses were divided into apartments, in addition to some classic apartment buildings. Rents are generally cheaper, but you might have to be careful of the landlord, because some are more interested in collecting a rent check than providing a decent place to live.
I don't drive, so one of the things I liked about the Wick Park neighborhood was the bus service. https://www.wrtaonline.com/ Their fixed route maps don't seem to be working at the moment, but they use the MyStop app, and I think you can look at the routes with that, too: https://myvalleystops.wrtaonline.com/InfoPoint/ Fixed routes only run every hour. But, the #1 Elm St. and the #6 Fifth Ave. are offset so that there is a bus every half hour. (all fixed routes leave the station at either ten minutes after the hour or forty minutes after the hour) And, both routes go over to the Belmont Ave. commercial corridor, where you'll find the usual fast food places, Walmart, pharmacies, etc. Also, service is now free. Having said all that, I now work from home, and am a homebody, so I rarely take the bus anymore.
Before moving to the Wick Park neighborhood, I lived on the West side, close to Fellows Riverside Gardens. While I loved living in that neighborhood, and being close to the park and gardens, I don't feel it was as walkable or transit friendly. While three fixed bus routes serve that side of the city: #4 Steel St., #9 Austintown, and #11 Cornersburg, the #4 and #11 are more like neighborhood routes, and have very circuitous routes that aren't very efficient.
I do want to be clear, though. While I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the region, the Wick Park neighborhood is still rough around the edges. I've had my house in this neighborhood for over 10 years, and I was burglarized once. (I worked on it for two years, before moving in, never had a problem in that time) And, some of my neighbors have lived here twice as long, and have never had anything bad happen. But, I've heard stories of other people living here, and being the victim of a crime multiple times. So, it's hit or miss. In the summer, with all my windows open, I will sometimes hear distant gun fire. You either get used to it, realizing that it's across the Crab Creek valley, and happening on the east side. Or, you decide you can't stand it, and choose to live somewhere else. We have a neighborhood Facebook page, and a NextDoor page where we talk about any local problems that may need addressed.
I'm writing this at the end of a long week, so I hope everyone was able to follow my ramblings. But, I have a couple other comments/thoughts that didn't fit anywhere.
The original building of the Butler Institute of American Art was designed by the renowned architectural firm of McKim Meade and White.
Jay Reese, I looked at your other thread, and while Boise may be more libertarian, Youngstown is definitely more liberal, although it gets more conservative, the further from the city you get.
Wow! I really appreciate your detailed reply, JR_C. You helped me gain a clearer understanding of Youngstown.
I'm a bit surprised that the buses only run every hour. I thought they would at least run every half an hour. I assume the demand for public transit in Youngstown isn't very high. I mapped out Belmont Ave., and it looks like the buses that run along Belmont would be very useful for the YSU students that live near the campus and don't have cars.
I read that the East side and parts of the South side of Youngstown have significant crime issues. A few other people (on other sites) stated that the North side can be a "mixed bag."
I really appreciate the responses I've received. As much research as I've done, I'm glad I was able to connect with people who either live in or spent significant time Youngstown. I'm grateful for your time.
I'm a bit surprised that the buses only run every hour. I thought they would at least run every half an hour. I assume the demand for public transit in Youngstown isn't very high. I mapped out Belmont Ave., and it looks like the buses that run along Belmont would be very useful for the YSU students that live near the campus and don't have cars.
There are a couple routes that do run every half hour, but other than the #8 Market St., I don't remember which ones. It's possible that the #10 Belmont Ave. runs every half hour, but I can't be sure, since the route info on WRTA's website is down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Reese
I read that the East side and parts of the South side of Youngstown have significant crime issues. A few other people (on other sites) stated that the North side can be a "mixed bag."
Really, there are stable enclaves on all sides of the city. Generally, things get rougher, and crime rates rise, as you get closer to the center. The Wick Park neighborhood has YSU and the higher student population to help stabilize things a bit. But, the neighborhoods further north, along Fifth Ave. and around Crandall Park are more stable, and have less blight. But, they're less walkable, too.
Really, there are stable enclaves on all sides of the city. Generally, things get rougher, and crime rates rise, as you get closer to the center. The Wick Park neighborhood has YSU and the higher student population to help stabilize things a bit. But, the neighborhoods further north, along Fifth Ave. and around Crandall Park are more stable, and have less blight. But, they're less walkable, too.
I see.
Earlier, you mentioned that you lived on the West side of Youngstown near Mill Creek Park. Did you (or any of your neighbors) experience any crime issues in your former West side neighborhood? Did you hear about any issues in that area?
Also, did that burglary happen fairly recently or did it happen a decade ago when you first moved into your house? Have the crime issues declined in the Wick Park area or have they persisted at a steady pace (or increased?)
I've been in some pretty rough areas in various cities across the country, but I'd like to live somewhere decent. You mentioned that the Wick Park neighborhood is stabilized by its popularity among YSU students, which is a good thing.
Earlier, you mentioned that you lived on the West side of Youngstown near Mill Creek Park. Did you (or any of your neighbors) experience any crime issues in your former West side neighborhood? Did you hear about any issues in that area?
Also, did that burglary happen fairly recently or did it happen a decade ago when you first moved into your house? Have the crime issues declined in the Wick Park area or have they persisted at a steady pace (or increased?)
I've been in some pretty rough areas in various cities across the country, but I'd like to live somewhere decent. You mentioned that the Wick Park neighborhood is stabilized by its popularity among YSU students, which is a good thing.
I lived in the Garden District neighborhood which is south of Mahoning Ave. and east of Belle Vista. I don't know what it's like now, but I'd guess the crime rate there was about the same as where I am now, when I moved. The difference is that my current neighborhood improved to that point, and the Garden District had declined to that point. (I was told that, back in the 80s and 90s, the Wick Park neighborhood was the kind of place where you would take your car to get stolen, to commit insurance fraud. You would also find drug dealers and prostitutes hanging out in the park, then)
The burglary happened in 2016. So, a few years after I moved here, but not recently.
Since I moved here, I'd say the crime rate has declined, but not in a huge way. Most of the improvement that I hinted at above happened in the early/mid 2000s. The neighborhood is still trying to shake off that stigma.
If you have any more questions, I'll be happy to answer. But I don't know if I'll be able to get to them until after Thanksgiving.
I lived in the Garden District neighborhood which is south of Mahoning Ave. and east of Belle Vista. I don't know what it's like now, but I'd guess the crime rate there was about the same as where I am now, when I moved. The difference is that my current neighborhood improved to that point, and the Garden District had declined to that point. (I was told that, back in the 80s and 90s, the Wick Park neighborhood was the kind of place where you would take your car to get stolen, to commit insurance fraud. You would also find drug dealers and prostitutes hanging out in the park, then)
The burglary happened in 2016. So, a few years after I moved here, but not recently.
Since I moved here, I'd say the crime rate has declined, but not in a huge way. Most of the improvement that I hinted at above happened in the early/mid 2000s. The neighborhood is still trying to shake off that stigma.
If you have any more questions, I'll be happy to answer. But I don't know if I'll be able to get to them until after Thanksgiving.
Thank you for your help, JR_C. Enjoy your Thanksgiving.
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) I completed my undergraduate degree from a university in SE Michigan as well. I currently live in Southern California. Since 2009, I have been making a living in the manual labor industry.
Cleveland State University
