About Youngstown, OH (Cleveland, Warren, Boardman: apartment, homes, neighborhood)
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Hello WRnative, roodd279, and everyone who has read and provided valuable responses to my posts. I have made my decision regarding graduate school. I really appreciate the time you guys invested in reading my posts and providing very valuable/helpful/insightful responses. I'm glad I pushed through initial hesitation and posted this thread. Not only did you guys help me, but you also helped countless people who might be thinking about relocating to Youngstown, OH ... or even attending Youngstown State University. Thank you everyone for your time and assistance.
According to the national weather service - and my own two eyes - Cleveland Hopkins (a bit west of Cleveland, but not much...) averages 62 inches of snow per year - while Youngstown is about 40".
The Youngstown Airport (a nonfactor otherwise, as few or zero commercial flights serve that airport at the moment, FYI) gets significantly more snow - and is just 12 miles straight north of Youngstown proper (meaning YSU). So when you google the snowfall - and they use the airport, which is common - it is misleading.
North / East of Cleveland (snowbelt) more like 80 - 100" of snow - and that's picking up steam as you head east...so no question Cleveland is spared much of the snowbelt misery - but Mahoning County (home of YSU) is jusssst south of where the snow drops heavy ...20 miles north, top of Trumbull county, 50" per year - and 20 more miles (Geneva) you're at 70" per year. It's a fine line! Thanks, Lake Effect!
Random info: Regarding the climate - from 1960 to 1990 the average snowfall for Cleveland was 56". Since 1990, the average is 64".
According to this website, snowfall averages from 2010 to 2019 were 75 inches in Youngstown and 53 inches in Cleveland.
I suspect that the averages have been less in the last five years, and will be even more low in the next five years.
It's funny how you dismiss snowfall totals at the Youngstown Airport, but provide no actual links about more recent snowfall fall averages in Youngstown.
And, again, these snowfall totals likely are based on misleading white board totals.
Finally, a 20-inch difference over 90 days is a fifth of an inch per day. Big deal, especially when much of the snow melts on contact with the ground or soon after.
Actually, I "jumped the gun" with that last post. I thought I had made my final decision regarding the university I wanted to attend but found myself thinking about another university that has the graduate program I'm looking for. Youngstown State University is a possibility.
I might sound a "broken record," but I really do appreciate all the help, support, and insight I've received in this thread.
It's funny how you dismiss snowfall totals at the Youngstown Airport, but provide no actual links about more recent snowfall fall averages in Youngstown.
Funny? I research and dig links for everything I post. I don't always include them because you can find them yourself at NOAA or 100 other places - I'm not the help desk.
I didn't know the snowfall total's either until I looked them up - I was hoping you were right, CLE same as Y-Town. But you're not right - which 50 years of living here should tell either one of us. I hardly ever am snowed in in a "shovel" situation in Y-Town - maybe three days a year - while I've been snowed in in CLE three times in a week repeatedly. It clearly snows more in Cleveland near the lake than it does in downtown Youngstown - those stats are recorded in many places.
It ALSO snows more at Youngstown airport - than it does in downtown Youngstown. 15 miles away - it's entering the snow belt. Frequently there is 6 inches of snow on the ground just 20 minutes drive from me - and ZERO here in Youngstown. This is not weird. This is normal. It's weird that you deny it though! Go look it up yourself - I don't make the stuff up - I just dig the data. I like it. It's a hobby. It's fun.
Now - moving East of CLE - into true snowbelt / lake effect land - certainly the snowfall totals dwarf either of us.
But if I had no car - and I had to plan on walking alot in Winter - it's Y-Town, not downtown CLE.
From our local news, WKBN: Total snowfall at the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport for the 2021-2022 season came in at 61.2 inches.
From weather-us.com, regarding DOWNTOWN Youngstown:In Youngstown, during the entire year, snow falls for 71.4 days and aggregates up to 26.73" of snow
Are these typical values? Seem to be. Some years better or worse than others. The trend is clear though - it snows more in Cleveland by any measure than it does in downtown Youngstown.
Meantime - here's a chart for CLE snowfall last 60 years - see a trend? Me neither. Less snow 60 years ago.
whelp...apparently my chart won't post...that's really weird...but you can get the data yourself and post it since at least 1960. Chart it in excel. No trend. More snow overall in late 70s - and less too - bigger extremes, I'd say - but overall - no real change.
It's funny how you dismiss snowfall totals at the Youngstown Airport, but provide no actual links about more recent snowfall fall averages in Youngstown.
Funny? I research and dig links for everything I post. I don't always include them because you can find them yourself at NOAA or 100 other places - I'm not the help desk.
I didn't know the snowfall total's either until I looked them up - I was hoping you were right, CLE same as Y-Town. But you're not right - which 50 years of living here should tell either one of us. I hardly ever am snowed in in a "shovel" situation in Y-Town - maybe three days a year - while I've been snowed in in CLE three times in a week repeatedly. It clearly snows more in Cleveland near the lake than it does in downtown Youngstown - those stats are recorded in many places.
It ALSO snows more at Youngstown airport - than it does in downtown Youngstown. 15 miles away - it's entering the snow belt. Frequently there is 6 inches of snow on the ground just 20 minutes drive from me - and ZERO here in Youngstown. This is not weird. This is normal. It's weird that you deny it though! Go look it up yourself - I don't make the stuff up - I just dig the data. I like it. It's a hobby. It's fun.
Now - moving East of CLE - into true snowbelt / lake effect land - certainly the snowfall totals dwarf either of us.
But if I had no car - and I had to plan on walking alot in Winter - it's Y-Town, not downtown CLE.
From our local news, WKBN: Total snowfall at the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport for the 2021-2022 season came in at 61.2 inches.
From weather-us.com, regarding DOWNTOWN Youngstown:In Youngstown, during the entire year, snow falls for 71.4 days and aggregates up to 26.73" of snow
Are these typical values? Seem to be. Some years better or worse than others. The trend is clear though - it snows more in Cleveland by any measure than it does in downtown Youngstown.
Meantime - here's a chart for CLE snowfall last 60 years - see a trend? Me neither. Less snow 60 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279
whelp...apparently my chart won't post...that's really weird...but you can get the data yourself and post it since at least 1960. Chart it in excel. No trend. More snow overall in late 70s - and less too - bigger extremes, I'd say - but overall - no real change.
What baloney. I explained my position and posted links documenting it. The links were the research results that prominently showed up when I researched Cleveland and Youngstown snowfalls. Anybody can do the same searches.
I don't know if you're incompetent or just deceitful, but I don't care. I'm not going to waste my time further debunking your research claims, especially when you're unable to post links to your research. How absolutely ridiculous that you believe anybody has an obligation to do so.
And I don't care about the difference in snowfalls at Youngstown airport versus anywhere else in Youngstown. Don't persons live near the airport? Is it actually in Youngstown? It's irrelevant to my argument, which is that harsh winter weather is disappearing, shockingly rapidly, in Greater Cleveland.
My original statement was that climate change is drastically reducing snowfalls in Greater Cleveland, especially in the snow belt northeast of Cleveland proper where I've actually lived for decades. E.g., we were supposed to have many inches of snow in the past few days. Had just over an inch in my driveway at max that all melted today. I suspect that white board snowfall totals were much higher, but the reality is much of the reported snowfall melted on the ground and pavement. Once again, I didn't use my snowblower.
Anybody arguing that persons should choose Youngstown proper over Cleveland proper due to significantly greater snowfalls in Cleveland is out of touch with current and even more especially future reality, despite all of your hyper claims otherwise. That's my documented argument MOST IMPORTANTLY BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE. I suggest anybody that truly cares visit a community of interest and ask some older adult about past vs. present snowfalls.
Climate change is real, but certainly we will have some meaningful snowfalls in the future. They just will pale greatly in frequency and volume against the reality in decades past, as is already evident. Both in the spring of 2021 and 2022, I had to drain my snowblower gas tank after filling it once. This year, I only put half a tank of gas in, and I suspect I'll still have to drain the tank. I'm wondering if I ever again will experience a nasty snowfall which requires a significant effort to clear my driveway, especially the apron after the plows have filled it with a foot or more of freezing snow; the last such snowfall was at least four years ago, and we used to have several every year.
Have you followed how NYC is obsessed by the absence of snow? I probably won't be alive to see it, but there will be similar stories in northeast Ohio within a few decades. As I said in my original post, I've used my snow thrower once this year. The last couple years have seen shockingly paltry snowfalls in Lake County.
None of this is surprising for anybody paying attention:
<<Earth’s average land and ocean surface temperature in 2022 was 1.55 degrees F (0.86 of a degree C) above the 20th-century average of 57.0 degrees F (13.9 degrees C) — the sixth highest among all years in the 1880-2022 record.
[2022] also marked the 46th-consecutive year (since 1977) with global temperatures rising above the 20th-century average. The 10-warmest years on record have all occurred since 2010, with the last nine years (2014-2022) among the 10-warmest years.
The 2022 Northern Hemisphere surface temperature was also the sixth highest in the 143-year record at 1.98 degrees F (1.10 degrees C) above average.>>
Check out Arctic Amplification. The Arctic is warming four times faster than the rest of the planet. As a result, there's just less cold air in the northern hemisphere and this reality increasingly is evident during Greater Cleveland winters.
BTW, anybody who regularly reads the Cleveland forum will see comments about the increasingly mild winters and the absence of big snowfalls. Actually, the December cold spell did bring Cleveland it's first sub-zero temperatures in several years.
whelp...apparently my chart won't post...that's really weird...but you can get the data yourself and post it since at least 1960. Chart it in excel. No trend. More snow overall in late 70s - and less too - bigger extremes, I'd say - but overall - no real change.
What baloney. .. incompetent or just deceitful..absolutely ridiculous
Why are you taking it so personally? Or - why are you responding with hostility? No one has an "obligation" to do anything here - including me. But since you don't believe me - why would you believe my supporting data?
Is it (the airport) actually in Youngstown? Nope. Not near at all, from a snowfall perspective. I assume you're referring to THIS link you posted:
Huh! Says Cleveland has more snow! Weird! (and that's comparing airports - not Y-town proper)
But here's a link to Y-Town proper...
Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
SIGNIFICANTLY less than the airport.
"weather is disappearing, shockingly rapidly, in Greater Cleveland...climate change is drastically reducing snowfalls in Greater Cleveland"
Snowfall chart doesn't show that. Here's a LINK ("link it, please") for your continued support. Please take the data from rightmost column, then plot your own chart in Excel. "Shockingly rapidly?" No evidence.
Is it less in the last 5 years? Sure. Less than 100 years ago? Nope. Rapid? Nope. HUGE change? Nope.
I've posted MY data - where's yours? (bjimmy, I made a chart in excel, made it an image - can't insert it...no idea....)
Basically, you've done nothing but insult me in the face of 100% facts and links on my side and 0% on your side. I don't know why you take it so personally.
Regarding all the rest - climate change, so forth - Not sure what that was to do with anything. The climate could change huuuuge amounts - and not change the weather in cleveland. But meantime - if the climate did not change - we'd still be under a glacier, so I'm mainly OK with it.
There is currently no newer edition of Weather America. The softcover is $195, while the eBook is $244. I own the 1st & 3rd editions, but not the 2nd. The reason I posted Mansfield & Wooster is to show the effect of elevation on snowfall. In the 3rd edition, Mansfield is 1,350', while Wooster is 1,020'.
While the 3rd edition numbers are probably more representative than the 1st edition (The 1st edition included the horrible cold & snowy years of the 1970s), many of the Micropolitan areas of interest to me are no longer found in the 3rd edition.
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