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Too bad about the Commons. Contrary to what others have said, people DO in fact go to the Commons in the winter. I was there last February walking around outside in the cold and snow. I didn't die. Here's something that will really blow your mind. I drove an hour just to spend the day at the Commons! That was my entire plan for the day. Had a nice lunch and dinner while we were there as well. And there's ZERO problems getting a cup of coffee in Ithaca! People are there for much more than coffee.
So if there were cars on State Street you wouldn't have visited?
A search on Google will provide you with article after article on why pedestrian malls are failures. And they are just so 1970's, when downtowns were emptying out and could not compete with the new shopping centers on the fringes of towns. That is no longer the case. People love to shop downtown.
But downtowns need good parking. And The Commons has no convenient parking if you're on the on the way to work or coming back from and want to get a cup of coffee, or go to the cleaners, or get a slice of pizza or whatever you want to do quickly, without having to park in a garage.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a fully opened one-way State Street could have diagonal parking on one side of the street. If so, presto - hundreds of parking spaces!
But the idea of a closed off street can be appealing. So what do you do? You close off the street on summer weekends when the weather is good, and people have time to stroll. How hard is that?
So now you would have your ideal downtown main street. Easy and convenient parking, with a temporary pedestrian mall in the summer.
In terms of consolidation, I was thinking in terms of growth potential and more people pay for the same services. With that said, the people there may view the city as a growth boundary in order to prevent sprawl.
Not all pedestrian malls are failures, just most of them. Even indoor malls are dying, fundamentally because most people are too lazy to get out of the car and walk. How many drive to the other end of the power center if visiting more than one shop in the same complex? I suspect most.
The Ithaca Commons has been relatively successful, as a frame for destination retail fueled by a sufficient number of car-independent folks. I don't think many of those folks are early risers though, the place seems totally dead before 10-11 am.
Downtown Cortland has been relatively successful as well, operating on a different economic plane. It would surely have died if pedestrianized in the 1970s as Ithaca's was. But available free parking didn't keep Cortland's well regarded downtown coffee house open. Cortland Standard .net
So if there were cars on State Street you wouldn't have visited?
A search on Google will provide you with article after article on why pedestrian malls are failures. And they are just so 1970's, when downtowns were emptying out and could not compete with the new shopping centers on the fringes of towns. That is no longer the case. People love to shop downtown.
But downtowns need good parking. And The Commons has no convenient parking if you're on the on the way to work or coming back from and want to get a cup of coffee, or go to the cleaners, or get a slice of pizza or whatever you want to do quickly, without having to park in a garage.
I specifically went to the Commons because it is a pedestrian mall. I wasn't worried about parking my vehicle several blocks away and walking. It didn't kill me. I was thrilled to go somewhere where I didn't have to worry about people driving throw with lots of people walking around. I love the Commons.
There is plenty of parking in downtown Ithaca. Yes, you have to walk, but that is city life! Most people don't go to the Commons for just a cup of coffee. There are 80 million Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks for those who don't make their coffee at home. There's far more to life than a cup of coffee. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who don't even drink coffee!
As someone that grew up in that area in the past, how do you feel about these projects being proposed for the Collegetown neighborhood?
Also, if there is some doubt about that Jason Fane building being built in Collegetown, I would think that Syracuse would love to see that design being built at the former Kennedy Square site, which isn't too far from Syracuse University or in the Franklin Square/Inner Harbor area.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-29-2014 at 08:46 PM..
There was a huge difference between Collegetown in 1986, and in 1990, even. It went from small town cut up, well on the way to outer-borough density, in those years. Coming from a small town, I didn't then understand the degree to which Ithaca is the lost outer borough.
Still I can understand higher densification there at the "Collegetown Dryden" location (much as I cringe at the name), more so than on the south side of East State. Maybe the latter is for students who use cars on the weekends, but can still tolerate daily bus rides.
Also, if there is some doubt about that Jason Fane building being built in Collegetown, I would think that Syracuse would love to see that design being built at the former Kennedy Square site, which isn't too far from Syracuse University or in the Franklin Square/Inner Harbor area.
It would be nice, but Jason Fane doesn't have any property in Syracuse, and has pretty low opinions of upstate cities in general. His real estate holdings are focused on Ithaca (where he started in the 1970s), Toronto (where there's a huge condo boom), and NYC. He'll get something on the 330 College site, but it'll only be 6-7 floors by my guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh
There was a huge difference between Collegetown in 1986, and in 1990, even. It went from small town cut up, well on the way to outer-borough density, in those years. Coming from a small town, I didn't then understand the degree to which Ithaca is the lost outer borough.
Still I can understand higher densification there at the "Collegetown Dryden" location (much as I cringe at the name), more so than on the south side of East State. Maybe the latter is for students who use cars on the weekends, but can still tolerate daily bus rides.
Yeah, Ithaca is a downstate favorite thanks to Cornell and the Finger Lakes' amenities. I think part of the reason why Collegetown Terrace was proposed where it was is that it was outside the Collegetown zoning area, which was in flux from about 2006-2014 (the zoning was only settled in March). Novarr already owned the Casa Roma and Boiler Works Apartments on that site, and seized the opportunity. The project looks very different from when it was first proposed, though, due to heavy city input during the process.
Recently, the developer of Collegetown Terrace noted that the parking was less utilized than expected, so Novarr-Mackesey is seeking a zoning variance to get rid of one floor of a parking garage and add about 80 units of dorm-style housing in its place, in the last building to be built. The dorm-style housing is meant to hit a less affluent student market segment- they share kitchens and bathrooms, but rent will be 30-50% less than other units in the complex.
With the zoning issue settled, it really is quite an impressive growth spurt. The Collegetown neighborhood is set to add over 500 bedrooms in the next few years.
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