Stadium Special Session Shot Down (Minneapolis, St. Paul: neighborhood, school, cost)

[moving123456]

Originally Posted by northstar22

Good. The thought of spending $1 billion or more on a football stadium seems obscene when people are starving in Somalia

Originally Posted by Slig

I see the people starving comment to be completely irrelevant....if you wanted to you could use that as an excuse for anything. Why don't we just completely shut down the government because some people are starving somewhere else in the world...

The thought of MN spending billions of dollars to build roads, police & fire departments, schools, libraries, light rail, and bike trails seems obscene people are starving in Somalia.

[pepe1]

For those who may not be aware, there is a stadium in Vancouver, BC that was of identical construction to the metrodome and of the same vintage (built one year later than the metrodome). The stadium was recently rennovated to include upgraded seating, concessions, luxury suites, and a retractable roof was also retrofitted to the structure. It is a absolute first rate facility and a gorgeous building.

The completed renovation costs were around one-half of the cost of construction of a comparable new stadium. Noteworthy is this one-half figure does not account for the additional savings incurred due re-usng the existing infrastructure (roads, parking structures, mass transit facilities, etc). So there were substantial savings to the taxpayer as a new stadium would have required significant infrastructure investment.

The stadium is BC Place and the official website is here:

Home - BC Place

There are also plenty of before and after photographs that can be found by doing a simple Google search...

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by pepe1

For those who may not be aware, there is a stadium in Vancouver, BC that was of identical construction to the metrodome and of the same vintage (built one year later than the metrodome). The stadium was recently rennovated to include upgraded seating, concessions, luxury suites, and a retractable roof was also retrofitted to the structure. It is a absolute first rate facility and a gorgeous building.

The completed renovation costs were around one-half of the cost of construction of a comparable new stadium. Noteworthy is this one-half figure does not account for the additional savings incurred due re-usng the existing infrastructure (roads, parking structures, mass transit facilities, etc). So there were substantial savings to the taxpayer as a new stadium would have required significant infrastructure investment.

The stadium is BC Place and the official website is here:

Home - BC Place

There are also plenty of before and after photographs that can be found by doing a simple Google search...

Haha, try telling that to Lester Bagley. He's such a pompous git. It's Arden Hills or nothing, apparently (except we all know that they're going to get something out of us...)

I really do love what they did with BC Place

[moving123456]

Originally Posted by pepe1

For those who may not be aware, there is a stadium in Vancouver, BC that was of identical construction to the metrodome and of the same vintage (built one year later than the metrodome). The stadium was recently rennovated to include upgraded seating, concessions, luxury suites, and a retractable roof was also retrofitted to the structure. It is a absolute first rate facility and a gorgeous building.

The completed renovation costs were around one-half of the cost of construction of a comparable new stadium. Noteworthy is this one-half figure does not account for the additional savings incurred due re-usng the existing infrastructure (roads, parking structures, mass transit facilities, etc). So there were substantial savings to the taxpayer as a new stadium would have required significant infrastructure investment.

The stadium is BC Place and the official website is here:

Home - BC Place

There are also plenty of before and after photographs that can be found by doing a simple Google search...

I have heard BC Place referred to as a "Polished Turd" by people from the area. They have said the lines for bathrooms and concessions are just as long as ever and the retractable fabric roof leaks.

[Ghengis]

Originally Posted by pepe1

For those who may not be aware, there is a stadium in Vancouver, BC that was of identical construction to the metrodome and of the same vintage (built one year later than the metrodome). The stadium was recently rennovated to include upgraded seating, concessions, luxury suites, and a retractable roof was also retrofitted to the structure. It is a absolute first rate facility and a gorgeous building.

The completed renovation costs were around one-half of the cost of construction of a comparable new stadium. Noteworthy is this one-half figure does not account for the additional savings incurred due re-usng the existing infrastructure (roads, parking structures, mass transit facilities, etc). So there were substantial savings to the taxpayer as a new stadium would have required significant infrastructure investment.

The stadium is BC Place and the official website is here:

Home - BC Place

There are also plenty of before and after photographs that can be found by doing a simple Google search...

You must be joking, this monstrosity looks like it was designed by Rube Goldberg Engineering Company. Their new roof comes with but a one year warranty. That sounds like a great idea...not!

Costs for the new retractable system and interior renovations have already ballooned from $365 million to nearly $600 million.


Problems at BC Place? - YouTube

CTV British Columbia - Service problems plague BC Place reopening - CTV News

B.C. Place roof causing problems- again | Vancouver 2010 | Sports | Toronto Sun

2010 Gold Rush: More roof problems at B.C. Place

So apparently this is what passes for innovation in Canada.

[pepe1]

Nobody likes cost overruns but is is a nearly unavoidable consequnce of taking on large scale projects. How many people do you know that have done a project even as small as a kitchen remodel? And did their remodel come in exactly on budget? Probably not - products may become discontinued, building material prices tend to be volitile, exisitng conditions may not be as originally assumed, and labor costs could be higher than anticipated.

Last figure I heard for the new stadium proposal in Minnesota was $700-900 million. Let's pretend they settle on $800 million as the intial construction cost. Do you really think that stadium will get built for $800 million on the nose? My bet is no. In fact, there was a study done in 2004 on the cost overruns of the 10 most recent (at that time) stadium renovations or stadium new construction. The average cost overrun at that time was about 20%.

[moving123456]

Originally Posted by pepe1

Nobody likes cost overruns but is is a nearly unavoidable consequnce of taking on large scale projects. How many people do you know that have done a project even as small as a kitchen remodel? And did their remodel come in exactly on budget? Probably not - products may become discontinued, building material prices tend to be volitile, exisitng conditions may not be as originally assumed, and labor costs could be higher than anticipated.

Last figure I heard for the new stadium proposal in Minnesota was $700-900 million. Let's pretend they settle on $800 million as the intial construction cost. Do you really think that stadium will get built for $800 million on the nose? My bet is no. In fact, there was a study done in 2004 on the cost overruns of the 10 most recent (at that time) stadium renovations or new constructions. The average cost overrun at that time was about 20%.

Spending the extra money over the BC Place renovation price would be worth it to not just end up with the same piece of crap stadium with a new coat of paint and some flat panel TVs slapped on the walls.

I don't think the problems of narrow concourses, lack of bathrooms, bad concession areas, and too few luxury suites could be solved without starting over.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by moving123456

Spending the extra money over the BC Place renovation price would be worth it to not just end up with the same piece of crap stadium with a new coat of paint and some flat panel TVs slapped on the walls.

I don't think the problems of narrow concourses, lack of bathrooms, bad concession areas, and too few luxury suites could be solved without starting over.

I think rennovation makes sense in the case of legendary stadiums like Soldier Field, Lambieu Field, Wrigley, Fenway, etc. It is really difficult, in my opinion, to make the same argument for a monumental piece of crap like the Metrodome. Even with the cost savings the Vikings are not even considering it an option and no reasonable politician or fan of the team can really argue. I don't think anybody really wants the dome to be the future home of the team. As for the group of politicians trying to offer the Metrodome to the Vikings for $1, they are wasting everyone's time...what an obscenely stupid idea.

[audadvnc]

I think a new stadium is going to happen; the Metrodome was appropriate for the 1980's, but most everybody hates it by now. The question is: who's going to pay - and who's going to profit? The answer should be: the same people.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

I think a new stadium is going to happen; the Metrodome was appropriate for the 1980's, but most everybody hates it by now. The question is: who's going to pay - and who's going to profit? The answer should be: the same people.

The city, county, state and team would be benefitting from a new stadium, whether through revenues, taxes, increased economic activity/tourism and of course the intangible benefits that the facility and an NFL team brings to an area. That being said, splitting the bill beteen these groups makes sense.