$15 Your wage approved in Minneapolis (St. Paul: leases, unemployment, school)

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by PDF

The same goes for those who oppose the increase. Declaring that this is going to lead to a negative impact on everything is complete overreaction.

What will they do when this is the minimum wage everywhere, as it should be? Can't wait to see their reactions then.

Please cite the post that states, "that this is going to lead to a negative impact on everything." Or did you overstate your opponents' argument? Also, please cite the post where a minimum wage opponent called wage increase supporters "stupid" as we were labeled by our friend Ghengis in post #20. No, the same does not go for those who oppose the comment.

We came to this forum with one basic argument: that the laws of economics show that when the price of something is increased, consumers will buy less of it. We came with a study by scholars from the University of Washington showing that in Seattle, recent increases had led to just this effect, and that low wage workers have been harmed by the increase.

Were we met with equally reasoned arguments by the liberal proponent of the increase? No. We were met with childish name calling and disdain, tactics that I wish I could say are below the members of this forum but cannot.

[Atalanta]

Do you think this will effect the price of gas?

I am not all that sure how gas prices are regulated.
I believe individual states can add tax onto gas prices to bring in revenue.

I'm wondering if gas prices would be effected.

[PDF]

Originally Posted by Atalanta

Do you think this will effect the price of gas?

I am not all that sure how gas prices are regulated.
I believe individual states can add tax onto gas prices to bring in revenue.

I'm wondering if gas prices would be effected.

Why is this even a concern?

[Atalanta]

Originally Posted by Atalanta

Do you think this will effect the price of gas?

I am not all that sure how gas prices are regulated.
I believe individual states can add tax onto gas prices to bring in revenue.

I'm wondering if gas prices would be effected.

Originally Posted by PDF

Why is this even a concern?

Seriously?

When gas prices go up you spend less money elsewhere in the economy. You have to put gas in the car

And it hurts travel vacations, which in then hurts the travel business industry.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Atalanta

Seriously?

When gas prices go up you spend less money elsewhere in the economy. You have to put gas in the car

And it hurts travel vacations, which in then hurts the travel business industry.

I think he means that the price of gas and the level of gas taxes are issues that would appear to be unrelated to the minimum wage in the city of Minneapolis.

[ArcLyte]

It looks like there are two factions in this thread. (1) The $15/hour supporters, (2) the folks who don't agree with the $15/hour/min wage. I find the argument for a $15/hour minimum wage interesting, because I'm not sure that the increase will lead to the desired outcomes. Typically, the minimum wage has been associated with jobs which are easy to do, require a very limited use of logic, and are often repetitive. In many cases, people who are living on the minimum wage are able to receive other benefits from our state. Examples of these benefits include (but are not limited to): WIC, Housing Vouchers, Heating Vouchers, etc.

The data from the HUD shows us that in Hennepin County, a "Very Low income" is a family of 4 making $45,000 or less. Extremely low is a family of 4 making $27k or less. Right now, the minimum wage would lead to a single earner making about $17,000/year. For two earners, that number doubles to $34,000. Under current HUD laws, this hypothetical family would still qualify for government benefits.

If the income suddenly spikes to ~$64,000 for the two earners in this same hypothetical family, the benefits would disappear. On the surface, this seems like a great thing. We've instantly pulled someone off of government benefits, but one big assumption that has been missed here is the idea that housing pricing will stay stagnant. Historical evidence indicates that as an economy improves, the basic "living standards" increase accordingly. As the market gets adjusted upward, a $15/hour minimum wage will only cover a "basic" living standard. The net gain of an 200%+ increased wage on a mass scale has yet to be proven.

Additionally, I'm in the camp of folks who are helping to automate these tasks which are easy to do (e.g. cashiering). Big enterprises are pumping billions of dollars into eliminating the human workforce. McDonalds recently announced that it will be reducing it's staff by thousands of workers in the upcoming years. McDonald's stock is soaring because of... automation - Hot Air Hot Air

Other corporations will fall in line with McDonalds, espcially as the technology becomes cheaper to engineer and implement. Automation is on the roadmap of every corporation, and the result is going to be a reduction of the labor force. It won't take McDonalds 7 years to get these systems perfected (the $15/hour min wage kicks in 7 years from now); in fact, if we look at technology of the past, I'd argue that by 2020 (3 years), McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King and everyone else will be able to have these technologies in their stores. I'd go as far as to say that the corporate shareholders would replace the entire C-suite if they do not have some form of these systems implemented by 2020.

Automation isn't going to disappear. Unskilled labor will disappear. Time is running out.

[Atalanta]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

I think he means that the price of gas and the level of gas taxes are issues that would appear to be unrelated to the minimum wage in the city of Minneapolis.

Oh. Thanks.
I had a hard time reading behind the lines on that post.

[PDF]

Originally Posted by Atalanta

Oh. Thanks.
I had a hard time reading behind the lines on that post.

That is what I meant. I guess someone being concerned about gas prices when it comes to all this just baffled me.

[PDF]

Originally Posted by ArcLyte

It looks like there are two factions in this thread. (1) The $15/hour supporters, (2) the folks who don't agree with the $15/hour/min wage. I find the argument for a $15/hour minimum wage interesting, because I'm not sure that the increase will lead to the desired outcomes. Typically, the minimum wage has been associated with jobs which are easy to do, require a very limited use of logic, and are often repetitive. In many cases, people who are living on the minimum wage are able to receive other benefits from our state. Examples of these benefits include (but are not limited to): WIC, Housing Vouchers, Heating Vouchers, etc.

The data from the HUD shows us that in Hennepin County, a "Very Low income" is a family of 4 making $45,000 or less. Extremely low is a family of 4 making $27k or less. Right now, the minimum wage would lead to a single earner making about $17,000/year. For two earners, that number doubles to $34,000. Under current HUD laws, this hypothetical family would still qualify for government benefits.

If the income suddenly spikes to ~$64,000 for the two earners in this same hypothetical family, the benefits would disappear. On the surface, this seems like a great thing. We've instantly pulled someone off of government benefits, but one big assumption that has been missed here is the idea that housing pricing will stay stagnant. Historical evidence indicates that as an economy improves, the basic "living standards" increase accordingly. As the market gets adjusted upward, a $15/hour minimum wage will only cover a "basic" living standard. The net gain of an 200%+ increased wage on a mass scale has yet to be proven.

Additionally, I'm in the camp of folks who are helping to automate these tasks which are easy to do (e.g. cashiering). Big enterprises are pumping billions of dollars into eliminating the human workforce. McDonalds recently announced that it will be reducing it's staff by thousands of workers in the upcoming years. McDonald's stock is soaring because of... automation - Hot Air Hot Air

Other corporations will fall in line with McDonalds, espcially as the technology becomes cheaper to engineer and implement. Automation is on the roadmap of every corporation, and the result is going to be a reduction of the labor force. It won't take McDonalds 7 years to get these systems perfected (the $15/hour min wage kicks in 7 years from now); in fact, if we look at technology of the past, I'd argue that by 2020 (3 years), McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King and everyone else will be able to have these technologies in their stores. I'd go as far as to say that the corporate shareholders would replace the entire C-suite if they do not have some form of these systems implemented by 2020.

Automation isn't going to disappear. Unskilled labor will disappear. Time is running out.

Why are many focused in on only unskilled workers being the ones to benefit from a $15 minimum wage? Many skilled workers are making way less than $15. This is about providing a living wage for everyone. Yes unskilled workers will get the most benefit from this increase, but let's not pretend that they are the only ones.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by PDF

Why are many focused in on only unskilled workers being the ones to benefit from a $15 minimum wage? Many skilled workers are making way less than $15. This is about providing a living wage for everyone. Yes unskilled workers will get the most benefit from this increase, but let's not pretend that they are the only ones.

Why don't you just state your own view instead of paraphrasing and then misstating the views of others?

No one denies that some workers may benefits from the increase, and I would agree that those who are likely to benefit are skilled workers. However, the minimum wage increase in Seattle has been shown to harm low wage, unskilled workers through cut backs in hours and the number of jobs available. The study cited earlier concludes that the minimum wage increase has COST these workers an average of $125 a month!

That these unskilled workers are disproportionately young and/ or of color is a concern to many of us. So my question for you is should a law be adopted that benefits skilled white workers at the expense of unskilled minority workers?