"Retirement" from Miami forum (Hialeah, Miami Beach: middle-class, real estate, apartments) - Florida (FL) -Miami-Dade County - City-Data Forum

Marlin331 · 04-22-2010, 12:37 AM

Dear Miami forumers:

After about two and a half years of posting on this forum, I have decided to scale back my participation. Since I am about to graduate from law school and will be very busy studying for the bar exam during this summer, I want to minimize any distractions, including this one. I've realized that I spend a lot of time everyday reading and responding to posts, and though I've quite enjoyed my time here, I've become increasingly aware that the same issues are discussed over and over again and I have pretty much said all I have to say about most of them. For this reason, I no longer plan to regularly check the forum or participate in discussions here.

This does not mean, however, that I will disappear for good. If anyone would like to contact me with a specific question or even to say "hello," please send me a direct message - I will be notified of it by email and will try to respond as soon as possible.

It's been quite an experience interacting with such a wide variety of people as those who utilize this forum. This is an excellent resource for information about our community and having the opportunity to provide helpful information about the area has been rewarding to me. I have especially enjoyed talking about history, ethnic relations, schools, real estate, and social issues in this area, and would be glad to answer any questions anyone may have for me about these topics.

Before I bid farewell to this forum, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the moderators as well as anyone who has ever complimented my posts by direct message, reputation comments, or otherwise. Though I have certainly received my share of insults, the kind words I have received have made this experience worthwhile. Before signing off, I would like to reproduce a few of my most popular posts - some of the ones of which I am most proud. Since I will no longer be checking in regularly, I ask that those of you who have taken a liking to me please quote any posts I have made in the past in new discussions where those posts would be relevant and useful. That way, though I may not be physically connected to the forum, I will always be here in spirit.

Best of luck to everyone with all of your endeavors in life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444

Hello everyone, I have made a very detailed map of Miami-Dade's neighborhoods. To view it, please click on the link below. Since my map is in so much detail and Google Maps only allows 50 boundaries to be shown per slide, please click on the "page 2" and "page 3" options on the left-hand side of the map where the areas are listed in order to see the map in its entirety. Feedback is welcome, so please let me know what you think!
Miami-Dade County - Google Maps

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444

Harry: I don't know if this is exactly what you want, but I will try to tell a somewhat brief version of the demographic changes in the Miami area over the last 50 years. OK... this isn't that brief, but I will try not to make it too long!

Prior to 1959, Miami was a small "Southern" city, complete with strict black/white segregation. The white population was not strictly Anglo-Saxon, however; there were a considerable number of people of Greek, Lebanese, Italian, Spanish, and Spanish-Cuban heritage. As far as I know, ethnicity didn't matter much in the Jim Crow era of racial segregation; black vs. white is what mattered.

Starting with the Cuban Revolution in 1959, several upper class Cubans, almost of all whom were white, arrived to Miami. Though this lasted into the 1970's, the 1960's are when most of this group came. During the 1960's and 1970's many middle-class Cubans, most of whom were white, arrived to Miami. Many affluent Cuban families had their property seized by the Castro regime and came to the US with nothing but their education and job skills. For this reason, many formerly-affluent Cubans settled in working class neighborhoods such as Little Havana and Shenandoah. As they began to establish themselves in the US, many moved to more affluent areas such as The Roads, South Miami, Coral Gables, and Key Biscayne. The children of these early arrivals (including some of the arrivals who came to the US as small children) grew up in either majority-Anglo-American areas or in areas with substantial Anglo-American and Cuban populations. For this reason, these people grew up similar to how Italian-Americans in NJ and Portuguese-Americans in MA grow up - as "ethnic" white Americans.

During the 1960's, Miami went through racial desegregation. For the first time, black children and white children attended integrated schools and separate waiting areas, restrooms, and public water fountains were elimanated for black and white adults. With this said, however, residential segregated between whites and blacks persisted.

Though Miami changed demographically in the 1960's and 1970's, it wouldn't be until the 1980's that the most drastic changes would occur.

In 1980, Fidel Castro declared that any Cuban who wanted to leave Cuba could do so by boat. By the time the US convinced Cuba to put a stop to this, over 125,000 refugees had arrived. These refugees tended to be working class and ranged from white to black to all colors in between. Castro called these people who left "the scum of Cuban society" and is rumored to have sent people living in Cuban jails and mental institutions to the United States. This gave the Mariel arrivals a negative image in the US, even though it was later estimated that only a small percentage of the Mariel arrivals were living in jails and mental institutions in Cuba.

Despite the fact that most of the Mariel arrivals proved to be hard-working and non-criminals/insane, many Anglo-American, Cuban-American, and more established Cuban residents did not want to be associated with that group. For this reason, many members of these groups moved away from working-class areas to middle-class areas, especially to SW Miami-Dade.

The McDuffie race riots occurred in 1980 after an all-white jury acquitted the white police officers who beat a black man to death after a high-speed car chase. The rioters, who were mostly African-American, set fire to buildings, smashed through store windows with baseball bats to streal things, and killed over 20 people. This occurred mostly in Overtown and Liberty City but really affected the common psyche of Miamians. Racial tension between whites and (African-American) blacks, and also between mulatto Cubans and (African-American) blacks had come to its boiling point. One of the principal things of which African-Americans complained in the 1970's and 1980's was that white American and Cuban business owners hired newly-arrived Cubans to do blue-collar jobs; these were jobs that (African-American) blacks once did and now they were being disciminated against and preference was being given to non-Americans, many of whom did not speak English.

Cubans, most of which fit the demographic profile of the Mariel arrivals, continued to arrive during the 1980's. Many central and inner-SW Miami neighborhoods, and also Hialeah, started to become so heavily Cuban that speaking English was no longer a necessity to live in those areas. Though virtually all new arrivals learned English to an extent, they learned at varying degrees. Some people became perfectly fluent while some did not make much of an effort at all. Many Anglo-American (and to a lesser extent, Americans born of Cuban parents) residents near these areas did not like this and began to move further into SW Miami, to Broward County and northward, and toward the coast.

The 1990's continued to bring more Cubans, but the main arrivals during this decade were Nicaraguans, Colombians, Venezuelans, Haitians, and to a lesser extent, Brazilians. These arrivals ranged from working-class to upper-class and from white to mestizo to mulatto. Nicaraguans began to settle along the Flagler corridor and the western portions of the SW 8th Street corridor; Colombians settled in West Kendall; Venezeualans settled in Doral and West Kendall; Haitians settled in the NE and NW portions of the City of Miami. Some of the upper-income Colombians and Venezuelans, and also Brazilians, settled in Brickell. Another group to arrive in large numbers was that of Mexicans in Homestead and far south Miami-Dade. Middle-class Anglo-Americans, and to a lesser extent Cuban-Americans, left Miami-Dade in great numbers during the 1990's. Areas whose demographics shifted a lot during this decade are West Kendall, South Dade in general, North Miami Beach, and parts of SW Miami-Dade between Bird Road and Sunset Drive. This last area I mentioned did not gain many Central or South American residents, however; it just became a lot more heavily old-time Cuban and Cuban-American. Coral Gables west of US1 became increasingly old-time Cuban and Cuban-American as well, as did Miami Lakes and Miami Springs.

The 2000's brought even more Cubans and all of the groups I discussed in the previous paragraph. Little Havana, especially in northern sections, became home to numerous Central Americans. Miami Beach became home to thousands of Argentinians. As real estate boomed, even more Brazilians, Venezuelans, Colombians, Russians, Spaniards, and Italians moved to newly-developed buildings and communities. All of these groups to a varying extent invested heavily in coastal areas; Colombians and Venezuelans invested heavily in West Miami-Dade and newly-built areas of South Miami-Dade.

Here we are in 2010. Anyone care to offer any predictions of how the demographics or cultural coalitions (Anglo+Cuban)/(African-American+Jamaican)/etc. will shift?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444

I have held my tongue on this issue, but I now will speak my piece.

To begin, English is the de facto language of this country, as it has been since this country's inception and likely will always be, at least until well past any of us cease to be alive. In my view, Spanish really stands no chance of becoming dominant in this country.

It's interesting to me that many say that Spanish is the dominant language of Miami, because even in 2009 I do not see it that way. Only a minority of Miami-area residents speak Spanish well, and of this minority, some speak English even better than Spanish. I am included in this group. Though I am in fluent in spoken and written Spanish, have lived in Spain (where I attended Spanish university), speak Spanish (and English) at home, listen to lots of Spanish-language music, and have a small group of friends among whom I pretty much only converse in Spanish, I was born and raised in this country, work in English, have attended mostly English-language schools, and maintain the majority of my personal and professional relationships in English. When push comes to shove, I have a larger vocabulary in English and can express myself better in English when talking about business, law, and more. When it comes to this last statement, this applies to everyone who has been born and/or primarily raised in this country and also to many of the old-timer Cubans under the age of 50-55. People who came to Miami well into their adult life will almost always choose Spanish over English, as will young people who are recent immigrants, although they will learn to be fully bilingual and may even learn to prefer English. With children, unless they are home-schooled and isolated from other children, there is not a chance in hell that they will grow up to prefer Spanish over English.

The only Miami citizens that should feel an obligation to learn Spanish are those who are interested in working in internationally-related jobs with the Spanish-speaking world. It is not rude to be disinterested in learning Spanish. However, today's young people in Miami (including many of the "Hispanic" kids who speak poor Spanish or no Spanish) should realize that knowing Spanish may open up some career opportunities for them. I tried to convince my sister to expand her vocabulary and actually use some of it, but she wasn't interested. I can't say that I blame her, as 100% of her friends, teachers, and acquaintances speak English. She will soon be a teacher (in the assimilation factory better known as the American public school system), so Spanish is not necessary. As a blue-eyed blonde she sometimes finds it amusing that people in Dolphin Mall or at the gas station will speak to her in Spanish, but when she says she doesn't speak Spanish well, 98% of the people with whom she deals will gladly speak English. It's a non-issue and basically only happens with old people or recent immigrants.

I have a few friends in Miami with whom I will go out in public - to the mall, to restaurants, to the beach - and speak Spanish. If people have a problem with that, then... oh well. However, if I am in a group of five people and only four of them speak Spanish fluently, the conversation will be in English. The reason why? When there is any question as to what the default language is, one needs to go no further than think about where the conversation is taking place: Miami is part of modern-day Florida (yes, leovigildo, we all know la Florida was originally a Spanish colony and that San Agustín was the first European settlement in the US), and Florida is part of the United States, a country where English is the dominant and de facto language of the American people. So yes, palmerodude, it is terribly rude to ignore a non-Spanish speaker in your presence when the rest of you speak English. Miami isn't its own country, and even if it were, Spanish does not even truly dominate there! Big business, law, government, and old money social societies operate in English, a language that is gladly spoken by the Anglo-Americans, Cuban-Americans, and Jewish-Americans who occupy the highest strata of Miami's ruling class.

Spanish is a very special language to me and so is the Latin culture, but if you really want to get away from people who rightfully insist on their continued usage of the English language and continued enjoyment/preservation of the Anglo-Saxon cultural norms, perhaps you should move to Latin America, Italy, Spain, France, or Portugal. Your combative attitude is completely out-of-whack with that of the overwhelming majority of Spanish-speakers with whom I have ever dealt, the majority of whom are glad to speak English because they are in a country whose history is literally written in that language.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444

When you look at apartments/houses, type in the address to find the exact elementary school your child will attend: Services Near You

Here is a basic guide to elementary schools, but keep in mind that this is a "rough" one and I pretty much made up the lables "north," "central," "east," etc.

Pinecrest (North) = Pinecrest Elementary School
Pinecrest (South) = Palmetto Elementary School
Palmetto Bay (North) = Howard Drive Elementary School
Palmetto Bay (Central) = Coral Reef Elementary School
Dadeland area = Kenwood K-8 Center
Falls area = Leewood Elementary, Vineland Elementary School
South Miami (East) = Sunset Elementary School
South Miami (Central/West) = Ludlam Elementary School
South Miami (North) = South Miami K-8 Center
Coral Gables (East) / Coconut Grove = George W. Carver Elementary School
Coral Gables (South) = David Fairchild Elementary School
Coral Gables (North) = Coral Gables Elementary School

You can research each one of these schools (test scores, location, demographics, etc.) through GreatSchools.net

PS - don't be put off by the couple "K-8 centers" there are on that list; what it means is that the elementary and middle school share the same facilities. I went to a K-8 center myself and I had a normal elementary school experience. My mom now teaches at one and the elementary and middle school kids are kept pretty separate.

PSS = "Dadeland" and the "Falls" are areas of east Kendall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444

Mariel was as hard to swallow for established Miami-Dade Cubans in 1980 as it was for non-Hispanic whites living alongside them. Before that year, Cubans were perceived as a "model" immigrant group, as a large percentage of the 1959-1979 arrivals (and in the case of the Keys, arrivals from as early as 1898, when Cuba gained independence from Spain) had education, skills, and entrepreneurial spirit. Though they retained a distinct cultural/ethnic identity, they were becoming established as just another "hyphenated-American" white ethnic group that came before them (Irish, Italians, Portuguese, Spanish, Greeks, etc.) Mariel was really a blow to how Cubans were perceived not only in South Florida, but also around the country. First, some people began to associate all of the drugs, shootings, robberies, and shady dealings of the 1980's with Cubans, just as Italians had in earlier years been associated with organized crime. Next, Mariel changed how many Americans perceived the socioeconomic status and race of Cuban immigrants. Though Mariel and later waves brought many white and/or educated Cubans to South Florida, most of the arrivals were of a lower education level and darker hue (mulattos, mostly) than pre-1980 arrivals. This tainted Cubans' reputation as being a "model" immigrant group and made assimilation into the white American-majority more difficult, and this understandably angered and upset many, who distanced themselves from marielitos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisp444

The arrival of several other Latin groups to Miami-Dade from the late 1980's to the present has really changed the demographics of some neighborhoods, and many people, including established Cubans and Cuban-Americans, are not thrilled with these changes. While some people recognize that many of the newcomers are hard-working and keep up their properties nicely, others have responded to their arrival by moving to areas that are traditionally Cuban/Cuban-American and Anglo.

The makings of a pan-Latin identity in Miami-Dade County - evidenced by the increase of use of the word "Latino" to label oneself and advertisements like the one of that radio station: "Latina, como tú y como yo" - is not embraced by many Cubans/Cuban-Americans. Many people are much more interested in their Cuban or in their American identities than in identifying with other "Latinos" with whom they may not have any kind of shared history. I was just having a conversation about this with a friend of mine and both of us agreed that we almost never heard the word "Latino" used when we were children and that only recently has it been popularized by the newcomers, especially by their youth. Again, many people are going to understandably resist this, and I am sure some feelings will be hurt along the way.

r_k · 04-22-2010, 08:14 AM

As a new member of this forum, I have been discovering your many posts and found them very helpful and informative, and I am sure will continue to do so. A very sincere thank you for taking the time, and hope to see you back when you have more time. All the best!