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Your comment that living in a neighborhood that is 95% South American is not diverse was funny. South America is in fact quite diverse. 15 countries, 371 million people, 2 major languages (Spanish and Portuguese). Anyone who says that living in an apartment building with representatives from all major South American countries is not diverse, probably has not travelled much there. That's like me saying that US citizens are not diverse.
Your second comment speculating that the said South Americans are all in some stage of foreclosure is also quite funny. Maybe some are, but some are not - just like the anglos. I am sure there are anglos that have foreclosure issues as well.
Why do I even bother to answer?
If you don't like the neighborhood around 1800 Bayshore, then don't move there. It's not rocket science.
Life is too short to be unhappy.
Miami is the epicenter of both mortgage forclosures as well as overpopulation and overimmigration of mostly hispanic immigrants. No other city in the country has a higher forclosure rate or a higher rate of immigrant population. A city run by immigrants with few regulatroy laws to prevent excess instability - If you can't see a connection there, that's fine. There are too many Bentleys in Miami for the number of homeless.
Burgler09- So many people on this forum regularly categorize "anglo" culture as a boring, flavorless brand of living that is practiced by everyone north of Palm Beach County. I personally hate the word "anglo". But, excuse me for thinking that everyone in South America was the same. They all seem to be coming here from the same group of countries to restart their lives, so if that is not a unifying trait (along with their refusal to learn English) well then gee, golly, and whiz, I'm sorry.
Last edited by big mean bear; 08-19-2008 at 10:06 PM..
Miami is the epicenter of both mortgage forclosures as well as overpopulation and overimmigration of mostly hispanic immigrants. No other city in the country has a higher forclosure rate or a higher rate of immigrant population. A city run by immigrants with few regulatroy laws preventing greed - If you can't see a connection there, that's fine.
You are mixing fact and opinion.
Why over complicate?
If one does not like Miami, because of whatever reason, than the person should leave.
Why stay here if you'll just be unhappy about it?
By the way, I wouldn't lump all Venezuelans into one category of people who will hiss at you if you try to speak their native language. I'm not joking, but my neighbors are Venezuelan and they are awesome.
I'm not quite sure what "mestizo" looks like, but it's not like I look like I just hopped the fence over here or anything like a lot of the mexicans in LA. I get kind of pale in winter when I don't go to the beach and aren't out in the sun as much as the rest of the year.
I just bring up the hispanic thing often when I post in the Miami forum b/c it seems to be discussed here and elsewhere on the internet a lot, but it seems it all cultural more than physical appearance since many hispanics in Miami look white, that's just different how it is here out west. It seems hispanic seems to be more of a term used for race/appearance out here and more for culture out in Miami, at least from what I gather. I'm probably making a bigger deal out of it that what it actually is. I don't want to "be" anything really besides who I already am, an American basically. I just need a change from the vanilla/white bread culture I grew up around in the SF Bay Area and here in San Diego, but am not looking to "be hispanic", just want to be around something different culturally I guess.
Anyways, thanks again for the input. I'm probably worrying about the whole hispanic thing too much.
Yeah. "Hispanic" has little racial context in Miami; if anything it suggests that a person is "white." It is definitely more of an ethno-cultural label. Please let me know if you have any other questions about Miami; I'd be glad to answer them. Though I moved to NYC for academic/professional pursuits, I love Miami and feel that it is a one-of-a-kind place in this country. If you want to live in a prosperous and dynamic place that feels like a combination of Latin and Anglo America, Miami is your place.
Thank you all for continuing this conversation. I do plan to learn conversational Spanish while I am here, but obviously that will neither happen overnight nor would I feel comfortable or safe speaking it in any subject that pertains to my patients' plan of care. The doctors and the nurses do speak to ME in English, but one of my concerns lies with conversations that occur in Spanish that may involve one of my patients and that I may never hear about.
While I absolutely respect other cultures languages and customs...and the fact that America is great because we are made up of so many cultures...I feel that here in Miami (not really ever facing this issue up to this point) I get a sense of annoyance/disrespect from many in the hispanic community (again, not all) once they find that I am not "one of them." It's the same kind of feeling that one may have when you're in another country like France or somewhere and you encounter someone who is annoyed that you (I) speak very poor French.
But it's different now because we are IN America, around other working AMERICANS...whether they are natives of Cuba, France, Germany, Italy, or wherever...someone mentioned in a post the fact that the sense of American pride is missing...that here we have these little pockets of areas where it seems that people would rather be back in their native country and have no interest in interacting with other "Americans" wherever their native origin is. Yes, feel at home here and free to legally carry out, share and celebrate your culture...our country as a whole is richer for it...but taking a segregationalist attitude into the community and workforce is so counterproductive and so against what our country has fought to achieve.
Yes, we do not have an *official* language, but with 82% of Americans having English as their native language, it's pretty clear that this needs to be the default language in the workplace when one is dealing with the public. If I was moving to France to become a CITIZEN, I'd be sure to learn and use the language in public...would they or other countries expect anything less?
we have these little pockets of areas where it seems that people would rather be back in their native country
I just want to point out that the conditions in which they came here are different from the conditions under which you would "move to France."
They probably would prefer to be back in their native country and might never have left if it weren't for the political/social/economic situations there. These people are not "immigrants" as the media suggests when they refer to them as "migrants." They are actually refugees - they come here seeking refuge from an intolerable situation elsewhere. They come here under diress, sometimes life-threatening. You would be surprised to learn what some of these people have been through. However, they often don't want to talk about it.
They meet the defining criteria provided by the Refugee Act of 1980: A person outside his or her country who is unable or unwilling to return or avail himself or herself of his or her country’s protection and who can demonstrate persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution. The basis for persecution may be race, religion, nationality, member of a particular group, political opinion, or subject to a coercive population control program.
Someone in the local media said it best when s/he said (paraphrasing here), "You migrate out of Cuba or Haiti they way you migrate out of your house when your living room is on fire."
Once they arrive, the acculturation process begins and it is a slow and sometimes painful one, but they all end up doing it to some degree. Sometimes it takes a generation. Notice I did not say "assimilation." They do not necessarily assimilate into mainstream American culture, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has to fit the corn-fed Iowa image to be an American; it's okay to keep an ethnic identity.
I live near Hialeah which is full of these refugees and deal with them through various work I do. I often find them to be more patriotic toward the USA than many "Americans" I know. Many "Americans" I know take what we have here for granted and complain about everything in this country. The refugees I deal with are filled with gratitude to be here and are the first ones to tell me how great this country is. They just tell me in another language, and that's okay with me.
The point of this post is not to excuse them for not speaking English and not assimilating immediately into mainstream American culture, but rather to explain a possible reason why it has not /does not happen/ed so readily. The mindset in which they came here might be an influence. If we willingly move to France, we might embrace French culture and take French classes beforehand to prepare because we might see it as fun. We are not under the stress and diress refugees are under. If we ever become refugees (God forbid), we might find ourselves understanding their situation a little better.
Just wanted to tell you, Sopralto, that it's not all black and white and things aren't always what they seem.
Again, welcome/bienvenido/bienvenue/bem vindo/wilkommen to Miami!
Last edited by nicsma2002; 08-20-2008 at 09:18 AM..
Thank you all for continuing this conversation. I do plan to learn conversational Spanish while I am here, but obviously that will neither happen overnight nor would I feel comfortable or safe speaking it in any subject that pertains to my patients' plan of care. The doctors and the nurses do speak to ME in English, but one of my concerns lies with conversations that occur in Spanish that may involve one of my patients and that I may never hear about.
If you feel your patients care may suffer b/c of this you MUST point this out to supervisors. I assume this job didn't require English/Spanish, if not then you should not have to understand Spanish to do YOUR JOB!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopralto
Yes, we do not have an *official* language, but with 82% of Americans having English as their native language, it's pretty clear that this needs to be the default language in the workplace when one is dealing with the public.
What is the language of the majority of the "public" you're dealing with? A lot of the "viejitos" in Miami don't speak much English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopralto
Yes, we do not have an *official* language, but with 82% of Americans having English as their native language, it's pretty clear that this needs to be the default language in the workplace when one is dealing with the public. If I was moving to France to become a CITIZEN, I'd be sure to learn and use the language in public...would they or other countries expect anything less?
I hear the same complaints from my family in Toronto about the Québécois, you can't work IN MOST JOBS in Québéc if you don't speak French.
It is weird and it is annoying at times, but it is just a reality that in lots of jobs in Miami, you'll hear TONS of Spanish. My wife's aunt works for waste management, in an office, not dealing with the public. They jabber away in Spanish all day even though ALL of them speak English. I can't imagine being a non-Spanish speaker in there.
Conversely, she couldn't work in an office dealing with a high level of English all day (like a Law office).
As to the "American" thing ... I agree that many "Spanish speakers," especially the Cubans, are as or more patriotic than the average American.
Don't take their lack of speaking English (you did say they are all capable of English) as an affront .. they don't mean it that way at all. They are VERY proud of this country and it's freedoms.
They speak English, their kids for the most part speak more English than Spanish, but they, many of their friends (and apparently co-workers) and many patients are just more comfortable in Spanish so they speak more Spanish than English. If I moved to France and was struggling with French much of the day, I would be speaking English every chance I got, wouldn't you! It's not exactly the same situation, but if I taught in an American School in France, with 3/4 Americans (who all spoke French) and 1/4 native French, what would the lingua franca be in the break room? English of course.
(This doesn't excuse someone just being rude by not speaking English to include you in conversations.)
But like I said, if this creates a safety issue, SOMETHING has to be done about it.
Last edited by planetsurf; 08-20-2008 at 10:33 AM..
Doesnt mean they dont identify themselves as american, but also Mexica-American, Cuban-American and so on....It would be quite shameful if ther cultural identification was lost just to fit in and become just "american".
No, it wouldn't be "shameful". That is exactly what it MEANS to be American. You drop the baggage (heritage) of where you were from and take pride in where you ARE, what you've become. I see the idea of accepting hyphanated-Americans as part of the lie of multiculturalism. A house divided can not stand. Everyone here is from somewhere but when you become American in your heart you stop mentioning where you were you were from (unless specifically asked) and just answer, "yes, I'm an American". We have many internationalist and multiculturalists (many are white native born Americans too) who are working to undermine our national identity to the long-term detrement of our country.
There is room in this country for anyone who wants to BE an American. Just drop the prefix and keep the -American part. That's it. You're in.
I like different cultures, but I don't really like the idea of hyphenated Americans either. I'm going to have to agree with the Baconator here in a sense. Diversity is great but if you are in America, you are first and foremost an American. It's fine to identify yourself culturally to your original land, but please assimilate to your new home land or else you end up having have a divided mess of people who don't really like each other, with zero sense of unity. That's not good no matter what your cultural background is. I do like a blending of ideals, since that is what defines us as America, but we need to keep the blender running. I don't think the blender is broken just yet, but it's slowing down after running for over 300 years. I do think it can be repaired however.
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