Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think if you comapre Miami to equidistant nearby cities on the other side of the Tropic of Cancer, let's say Cancun and Jacksonville, you can understand why Miami isn't tropical. It is tropical adjacent, tropical light, subtropical WINTERS, whatever kind of name you want to call it, but not truely tropical like the later.
Cancun NEVER gets as cold as Miami in the winter. Their AVERAGE low temperatures are warmer in January. Conversely, Jacksonville is colder than Miami on average in the winter, regarding low temperatures on average.
In these different cities, from north to south, you can clearly see the transition. Jacksonville sees frost frequently throughout the winter, even though it essentially doesn't snow. The native vegetation does not look tropical, just hints of it with some saw palmetto palms.
Now Miami, where temperatures EVERY WINTER, have nights in the 30s and frosts in far west areas, is transition from a subtropical to tropical area. Some years have more pronounced cold snaps than others. Tropical trees burn back due to the cold when this happen, but they recover because the cold snaps are short lived. The native vegetation takes on a mixed look of tropical and northern.
In Cancun, cold fronts blow through, but lows are NEVER in the 30s in even the coldest weather in any given winter. The tropical vegetation doesn't ever freeze back. Frost does not ocurr. Native vegetation is totally tropical.
These are examples of the transition zone. Miami just happens to be in the middle of the transition zone. It has aspects of both zones. But to call Miami Tropical is not accuarte, it ignores the other huge aspects that affects the landscape of the area. Calling it just subtropical doesn't give an accurate picture since it covers so much as other posters pointed out, but Miami would fall into that definition since it is clearly a transition zone.
No reasonable person would say the weather or native vegetation in these sample cities are the same, and that is a result of a varying climate. Which of these two cities are more similar to Miami in climate and vegetation is a question with an answer that will depend on where YOU come from and what YOU choose to see based on your life experience. Miami is a true trnsition zone between subtropical and tropical, and btw, subtropical is a transition zone of it's own. So why get so worked up about this? Some people are overly worried that this will somehow affect Miami in a negative light...sigh. It is science, get over it. Miami is not truelly tropical, it is close though. That doesn't detract from the city, it's potential or how you feel about it. We are talking technichalities here....and none of this changes anything....
Brotha....I understand what you're saying, to a degree, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, doesn't it? I mean, there are species of plants and trees found in Madagascar (which, of course, is in the tropics), that you will NEVER find in Venezuela. Doesn't mean that Venezuela doesn't have a tropical climate. It is simply on another part of the Earth.
(Der moment upcoming)......The closer you get to the Equator, the warmer the AVERAGE temps are gonna be.
But, just because Miami doesn't sit inside the TOC, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a tropical climate.
FWIW, Miami's absolute lowest recorded temperature was 30 degrees F.
Havana, which is INSIDE the TOC, its absolute lowest.....32F. If my math is correct, that's a 2 degree difference. Negligible.
RESEARCH this. Miami is ONMLY SUBtropical, nothing more. You have obscure outdated sources that GENERALLY proclaim Miami to be tropical. The oNLY reason for this is because it is obviously different than the REST of the continental US. HOWEVER , the fcat it is diofferent does NOT mean it is tropical or the equal to other truly tropical places.
Miami is SUBtropical. GOOGLE IT.
Who is more credible: you are Wladimir Koppen?
I'm going with the Kopster. He knows that he is talking about. Trewartha's corollary even confirms this as true. Most climate classifications go by Koppen/Trewarthas anyway.
Aside from this, Miami's vegetation is far different from even Tampa, or Central Florida. And, they are not that distant. It indicates that Miami is where the tropical boundary is. Miami can grow all of these tropical plants you speak of, and is very lush. The only reason why Miami isn't as lush as a typical equatorial climate is because it gets too much sunshine for a tropical climate (3000+ in/yr). Otherwise, it would be a forest-like atmosphere.
The cold spells (sans 2010) have very little effect on the vegetation of Miami. For example, look at this video and see how lush Miami is. I bet you won't find any of the coconut palms that look like this anywhere on the U.S. mainland outside of South Florida:
Do you see how tropical those coconut palms look?!?!? Very, very lush. Find me a place anywhere in the U.S. that has trees that look like that. I'm waiting.
I think if you comapre Miami to equidistant nearby cities on the other side of the Tropic of Cancer, let's say Cancun and Jacksonville, you can understand why Miami isn't tropical. It is tropical adjacent, tropical light, subtropical WINTERS, whatever kind of name you want to call it, but not truely tropical like the later.
Cancun NEVER gets as cold as Miami in the winter. Their AVERAGE low temperatures are warmer in January. Conversely, Jacksonville is colder than Miami on average in the winter, regarding low temperatures on average.
In these different cities, from north to south, you can clearly see the transition. Jacksonville sees frost frequently throughout the winter, even though it essentially doesn't snow. The native vegetation does not look tropical, just hints of it with some saw palmetto palms.
Now Miami, where temperatures EVERY WINTER, have nights in the 30s and frosts in far west areas, is transition from a subtropical to tropical area. Some years have more pronounced cold snaps than others. Tropical trees burn back due to the cold when this happen, but they recover because the cold snaps are short lived. The native vegetation takes on a mixed look of tropical and northern.
In Cancun, cold fronts blow through, but lows are NEVER in the 30s in even the coldest weather in any given winter. The tropical vegetation doesn't ever freeze back. Frost does not ocurr. Native vegetation is totally tropical.
These are examples of the transition zone. Miami just happens to be in the middle of the transition zone. It has aspects of both zones. But to call Miami Tropical is not accuarte, it ignores the other huge aspects that affects the landscape of the area. Calling it just subtropical doesn't give an accurate picture since it covers so much as other posters pointed out, but Miami would fall into that definition since it is clearly a transition zone.
No reasonable person would say the weather or native vegetation in these sample cities are the same, and that is a result of a varying climate. Which of these two cities are more similar to Miami in climate and vegetation is a question with an answer that will depend on where YOU come from and what YOU choose to see based on your life experience. Miami is a true trnsition zone between subtropical and tropical, and btw, subtropical is a transition zone of it's own. So why get so worked up about this? Some people are overly worried that this will somehow affect Miami in a negative light...sigh. It is science, get over it. Miami is not truelly tropical, it is close though. That doesn't detract from the city, it's potential or how you feel about it. We are talking technichalities here....and none of this changes anything....
Dude, Cancun is within the tropics and has low elevation. Of course it will have no cold spells. Compare a climate like Miami to Tampa, or Brownsville: Two nearby cities with similar latitude. And then look at the difference in vegetation. 'Nuff said, son.
Brotha....I understand what you're saying, to a degree, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, doesn't it? I mean, there are species of plants and trees found in Madagascar (which, of course, is in the tropics), that you will NEVER find in Venezuela. Doesn't mean that Venezuela doesn't have a tropical climate. It is simply on another part of the Earth.
(Der moment upcoming)......The closer you get to the Equator, the warmer the AVERAGE temps are gonna be.
But, just because Miami doesn't sit inside the TOC, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a tropical climate.
FWIW, Miami's absolute lowest recorded temperature was 30 degrees F.
Havana, which is INSIDE the TOC, its absolute lowest.....32F. If my math is correct, that's a 2 degree difference. Negligible.
Just sayin'.
I'm not saying all tropical vegetation can be grown anywhere within a certain latitude. What I am saying is that if a plant can't be grown somewhere else, with similar geography, latitude, elevation and weather, due to annual cold snaps, that is an indicator of a climatic zone in transition.
Miami's record low temperature was actualy a chill 27 on a February 3, 1917.
It never gets into the 20s, at sea level, on the coast, in a tropical region.
Dude, Cancun is within the tropics and has low elevation. Of course it will have no cold spells. Compare a climate like Miami to Tampa, or Brownsville: Two nearby cities with similar latitude. And then look at the difference in vegetation. 'Nuff said, son.
Yes, you just reiterated my point. Cancun has a low, coastal elevation, on the water, is in the tropics and does not experience freezes as Miami does, despite being only mildy more to the north, outside of the "tropics," hence the colder, non-tropical classification.
Miami is just as similar to Brownsville and Tampa as it is to Cancun. It is a transition betwen these cities mentioned (Brownsville and Tampa are very similar to each other). The vegetation in Brownsville is not as tropical looking as in Miami...so I am not sure why you are attempting to make an argument against me when you just backed up everything I had previously written.
I gave examples of cities just to our north and just to our south and highlighted the differences. How anyone can definitively claim Miami is one or the other is just projecting personal opinion. Miami is a transition zone between subtropical and tropical....there are characteristics of both.
Miami is a transition zone between subtropical and tropical....there are characteristics of both.
That is the most idiotic thing I have read yet, it either IS or it ISNT it can't be "well kinda sorta both". Climate in Miami is EITHER more like Jacksonville (which is sub tropical -which it's not) OR it's more of that seen in other tropical locations, but it can't be "Well, it's a transition so it's kinda sorta inbetween" The facts, the charts, the data shows Miami/South Florida is Tropical climate, it is not in the tropics, we ALL know that.. There is a difference from actually being in tropics to actually having a tropical climate.. I don't know how much simpler it can be explained.
Miami is transitional location, but it is tropical because it fits the tropical criteria in terms of temp averages and rainfall. Somewhere like Naples FL or Fort Myers would be true transitional areas since the temp averages for january oscillates from the 64.4 F criteria almost every year. Miami is well over the 64.4 F threshold pretty much every season, and isn't really a true transitional zone like Ft Myers.
Also, Miami has a 11A PHZ in some areas and can grow alot of these tropical plants you find in equatorial lowlands.
I'm not saying all tropical vegetation can be grown anywhere within a certain latitude. What I am saying is that if a plant can't be grown somewhere else, with similar geography, latitude, elevation and weather, due to annual cold snaps, that is an indicator of a climatic zone in transition.
Miami's record low temperature was actualy a chill 27 on a February 3, 1917.
It never gets into the 20s, at sea level, on the coast, in a tropical region.
Not trying to be difficult, bro. I'm just saying that those latitudinal lines are man made and are not absolute, where climate and weather phenomena are concerned. Havana and Miami are very, VERY close in relative proximity to one another. Havana barely rests below the TOC and Miami, barely above it.
I'm from Boston and really couldn't care less. All I know is, to ME, it sure as bleep FEELS tropical! lol! And if you look at the actual definition of tropical, you would see that Miami very much falls into the category, one or two cold snaps aside.
That imaginary line, of which you spoke, is blurred when you're that close to each other.
The same argument you're making against Miami's tropical(?) climate, can be made for Havana's. And IF, for argument's sake, Miami's climate is NOT tropical, will you at least concede, that it's damned close?!
These are examples of the transition zone. Miami just happens to be in the middle of the transition zone. It has aspects of both zones. But to call Miami Tropical is not accuarte, it ignores the other huge aspects that affects the landscape of the area. Calling it just subtropical doesn't give an accurate picture since it covers so much as other posters pointed out, but Miami would fall into that definition since it is clearly a transition zone.
No reasonable person would say the weather or native vegetation in these sample cities are the same, and that is a result of a varying climate. Which of these two cities are more similar to Miami in climate and vegetation is a question with an answer that will depend on where YOU come from and what YOU choose to see based on your life experience. Miami is a true trnsition zone between subtropical and tropical, and btw, subtropical is a transition zone of it's own. So why get so worked up about this? Some people are overly worried that this will somehow affect Miami in a negative light...sigh. It is science, get over it. Miami is not truelly tropical, it is close though. That doesn't detract from the city, it's potential or how you feel about it. We are talking technichalities here....and none of this changes anything....
You make points but in all respect you are wrong or just do not understand what we the "tropical" group is saying.
Climate classification does not have the class of "transitional zone" It is either a tropical climate or not. If we do the MATH , again if we do that math the math comes out to making Miami a tropical climate. We are only talking about climate, not what it looks like, not what it feels like, not what plants grow here, not what the water looks like, not what music is played here just whether the average temp and rain fall is. That is all we care about temp and rain fall. The temp and rain fall make Miami a tropical climate. There is no "in between" climate. That is what we are talking about. I understand what you are saying, Miami is certainly not "as tropical" as other tropical climate locations but the simple math and science says it is.
There is no "in-between" climate that is what we are saying. Miami is tropical according to the most widely used climate classifcation systems. You are saying its science, I am trying to show that the science says Miami is tropical. It is a simple math which I did myself a few years ago.
Of course there are different climate classfications, I am going by the ones I prefer and the ones I used the most while studying geography in college. We agree on most things so agree to disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickSantos
RESEARCH this. Miami is ONMLY SUBtropical, nothing more. You have obscure outdated sources that GENERALLY proclaim Miami to be tropical. The oNLY reason for this is because it is obviously different than the REST of the continental US. HOWEVER , the fcat it is diofferent does NOT mean it is tropical or the equal to other truly tropical places.
Im just skeptical about any "categories".
Dallas where I live is "sub-tropical". I bet you dont see anyone in shorts around here in mid January. Plus we get tons of snow and ice. Our temps are way different than Orlando which is also "sub-tropical". What Im trying to say its, there has to be more subclimates than the ones specified before. Also, these categories are very simplistic. Hence, Miami, would not be tropical or sub-tropical but some New transitional undefined category.
But if I have to choose, Miami is a true sub-tropical. So its Orlando.
Jacksonville and Dallas are in another category but never sub-tropical.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
