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Hmmm...you may want to lay this on Kennedy, but I honestly never saw the homeless in Manhattan at least, before 1973 or so. All the talk in the paper and in school at the time was about the budget crisis being the cause. I'm just guessing, but maybe they were dumped on the street by these community homes when they stopped receiving their funding.
Uh no, it's well documented. I'm not trying to "lay this" on Kennedy but it was part of the Great Society movement.
This is the problem when [liberal]....since you're taking a political stance on it apparently....decisions are made based on social PHILOSOPHIES before there are any PRACTICAL PLANS and ECONOMIC solutions.
Not unlike the "closing of Guantanamo" ...we're going to close it down...but we have no idea what to do after announcing it.
Here's a link from NEW YORK archives. As you can see, exactly what happened was they decided (with good reason) that the mentally ill were being mistreated in institutions.
THEN they made up all these government programs that never came to fruition in a practical way.
You can say it was the catchment areas dumping them due to funding but as you can read, they never HAD it in place to begin with. The COURTS decided on de-institutionalzation. And for that matter the 1950's invented drugs like Thorazine and gave confidence in the concept that mentally ill people could be released. MINOR DETAIL : HOW to MAKE THEM take their meds.
And that's not really true that the people were victims of funding issues because SSI was enacted during the time you reference, thereby allowing the mentally ill some income to live independently.
AGAIN, YOU CANNOT MAKE A MENTALLY ILL PERSON TAKE MEDS OR GET HELP. THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM. UNLESS THEY ARE A DANGER TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS THE COURTS WILL NOT ACT.
So they waive their weens on the street LOL.
This is how our government works. Everything that is institutionalized gets hung up in bureaucratic nonsense. All the noble promises .....
I am a populist not a political ideologue. Not pointing at Kennedy per se but certainly you have to agree that the more academic "liberal" type philosophies promote government as the solution and all based on ideology not really practical methods of execution of said noble goals. No?
· Mid 1960's-1970's: Academic attackson mental health and psychiatry proliferated. Laing, Szasz, Scheff, and others were critical of psychiatry and mental institutions. Their view gained wide acceptance and shaped popular perceptions of the mental health system.
· Late 1960's-1970's: State and federal courts ruled that the mentally ill had thelegal right to refuse treatment and could not be involuntarily committed to mental institutions unless they posed a clear and present danger to themselves or others. Other court rulings forced New York State and other states to improve the quality of care in the institutions they operated.
· Late 1960's-1970's: The definition of mental illness expanded to include minor mental disorders and difficulty in coping with life crises. This expansion reflected increasing involvement of psychologists, social workers and other non-psychiatric personnel in treating mental illness.
· Late 1960's-1970's:The mass political movements of the era were often hostile to the concept of mental health.
·Late 1960's-1970's: The problems associated with the policy of mass discharges (deinstitutionalization) from state hospitals became increasingly evident: lack of continuity of care and failure to meet the needs of the seriously mentally ill.
·1970's: Economic difficulties affected the DMH and hamper its ability to maintain and expand programs.
·
1972: Two new federal Social Security programs, Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI), dramatically altered care for the mentally ill allowing them to live independently.
1973: The New York State Unified Services Act was passed. It was designed to improve coordination between state and local agencies. However, only five counties put forth acceptable unified services plans.
· ·1974: The New York State Legislature enacted laws mandating that the state furnish appropriate care for those discharged from state hospitals.
· 1975: The Federal Mental Health compelled federally funded community mental health centers to care for the seriously mentally ill.
· 1977: Jimmy Carter formed the President's Commission on Mental Health.
·
· 1978: The Civil Service Employees Association’s advertising campaign resulted in an executive-office policy directive instructing the OMH to increase staffing levels in state psychiatric centers.
· 1978: The OMH created the Community Support System, a program designed to furnish treatment and support services to the seriously mentally ill.
ALL THEY DID WAS DE-INSTITUTIONALIZE THE MENTALLY ILL AND DECIDE TO LAY THEM ON COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS (AKA MENTAL HEALTH CENTERS)
NOTE: Carter was in office at that time too Same old thing. The politicians decide to make changes they cannot support. And the FEDS direct the STATEs to carry out UNFUNDED mandates.
Although we can see in NY's case they went right along with it because it's such an academic state.
There is no solution to this problem IMO. If FAMILIES do not help their own, the people are SOL....and look how many families cannot deal with their mentally ill due to their violence and abuse...their lives are in danger allowing the sick one to live in the home etc....
My brother in law in Greece has a schizophrenia spectrum diagnosis. He can throw the sofa across the room through the window out into the street. His family and life difficulties have nothing to do with funding. No amount of money is going to allow him to live a crisis free life. And he had the best of care. We had him here at the Univ of Pa for a complete work up and dx. Even they had to go with a spectrum dx.
My coworker's brother has it too. Usually there are multiple diagnoses not just "schizophrenia". He has been KICKED OUT of about 37 group homes no exaggeration. The parents are dead and it's only two siblings caring for him. He calls her about 20 times per day and her life is completely run by his mental illness. She and her husband are well off. STILL, there is no solution for the guy. His life is a revolving door of group homes she pays for and IF HE were a bit crazier as far as refusing treatment, he'd be the one in Hollywood.
Luckily he does his meds but is still uncontrollable.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 07-02-2009 at 03:40 PM..
BTW Amsterdam has a large amount of homeless, drug addicts, mentally ill also. They have very strict rules on who gets the "free/cheap" public housing. They also have tons of minors roaming the streets and have other sets of rules about them. Very complex structure to deal with a problem that's only escalating (from people migrating there especially minors).....and they're pretty "different" than we are here.
Nonetheless, both our societies have "the problem". BECAUSE MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE WON'T EXACTLY ACT RATIONALLY. Not even if the government PAYS THEM TO.
Now with the strong street drugs, PTSD and other serious problems there's just "more of them".
Today some old guy was panhandling in front of my building. BAREFOOT. Hair down to his chest, filthy clothes. In the middle of Jacksonville city in front of a 29 floor office building courtyard. I said "where are your shoes"??? and he was mumbling gibberish. I gave him 20.00 and said "go buy shoes". (others were giving him money too so he had a little payday).
from the reports I have read in sun sentinel I don't know about that one. They have a huge prostitution problem. There has also been murders among other things. If I find the article I will post it.
You don't have to read the paper to know about the prostitution. You can visibly see the prostitution if you drive on US1 on any given night (they are all over the place and a lot of the activity is out in the open), and yes there have been a couple of domestic murders in Hollywood (2007 was the year where I believe 3 were killed in robberies). Also rampant burglaries in some areas and fair amount of strong armed type muggings but that's mainly if you walk down the wrong alley. I'm saying that compared to the city of Fort Myers (visit some day but the actual city limits) or Daytona Beach it is easy to avoid because a lot of the crime is insider/drug related and neighborhood restricted, but I'm not saying that Hollywood doesn't have a crime problem or doesn't feel shady, just a different kind of shady...
Ft Myers = terrible. Thugs (the kids that killed Sean Taylor - were from Ft. Myers - the trigger man was only like 15 yrs old). Drugs, prostitutes, terrible bad drivers, impatient people, rude people, hotter than hell over there... I dont see any positives to it. It's too bad too, because it could be a lot better.
This post makes you sound like you are old and cranky enough to actually live in Ft. Myers...
Those people are attracted to Florida. I dont know what it is, but FL attracts these folks.
Don't need to buy clothes. No freezing in winter. More places to "hide out" like along nice beaches instead of dirty smelly subways. And the imaginary thought that there will be some "job" or something to get by. And if not it's better to be screwed up in warm climates than cold.
I think there's an element of avoiding "the South" too. So "they" aren't going to say "I'm leaving NYC for Alabama"....they're going to go for Florida. The perception that they're less tolerant than Florida, albeit Florida has the reputation of being a conglomeration of everyone not particularly "southerners" by most Northern folks. The average Northerner has no idea there's an element of the old South in some places in Florida.
Remember, if you're mentally ill or even have a routine personality disorder you're the only one who "knows what it is"....ha ha.
I disagree. Hollywood has a ton to offer. It has the beach, the broadwalk, a tourist presence, a vibrant downtown, a park in its downtown, live music, a farmer's market, artists, gays, interesting pre-50's residential architecture on tree-lined streets (Hollywood Lakes) that is walking distance to downtown, and new residential loft-type development. What else would you want?
I agree with you fauve ... it is has sort of a Venice Beach , California vibe ... good bars , restaurants and weirdos all in the same area .. it is actually a lot of fun on the weekends
So does Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Boca Raton etc. and they do it a heck of a lot better than hollywood does. That boardwalk is right next to some of the ugliest buildings and a mall that looks like something out of mad max. Hollywood is not a very attractive place.
"the broadwalk"
See above
"Tourist presence"
So do the cities of Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Boca Raton etc. and they do it a heck of a lot better than Hollywood does. And Hollywood’s tourism base is not doing much to help its faulting financial stability either.
"Vibrant Downtown"
Really? Have you been there lately? I was there last week and the week before that and the week before that. I would say over 40% of those stores are empty, closing or on the verge of closing. Also the turn over there is extremely high/unhealthy. Not to mention the high number of undesirables over there. Just so I don't leave any room for someone who wants to prove a point out of nothing. I go there to take pictures for a series I am working on.
"Live Music"
Again so do the cities of Miami, Fort Lauderdale and many other South Florida areas. So how does this help Hollywood. To be viable you have to have something people want. Something that is truly desirable. That place doesn't have it.
"Farmers Market"
Umm have you been to that thing? Very little of the stuff being sold there is local produce which is not a true farmers market. Farmers Markets are traditionally places were LOCAL farmers go and sale their goods to the public. That place doesn't do that. If you go and pay attention to what is written on the boxes they unload from the carts you will see what I mean. Even though very little of it is local the farmers market on Lincoln road on South Beach blows it away. So again, this isn't something that Hollywood has a great advantage in.
“Artists”
Again, can't compete with Miami and Fort Lauderdale has a far stronger artist presence and appreciation for artist. Miami's design district with its art walk puts Hollywood to shame and Fort Lauderdale has done things like given artist a co operative apartment complex to help them focus on their art work. Again Hollywood doesn't have the advantage here.
"Gays"
Had to scratch my head on this one.
Interesting pre-50's residential architecture on tree-lined streets (Hollywood Lakes) that is walking distance to downtown
This is does have but So does Miami and so does Fort Lauderdale. Go walk around Victoria Park or those finger Islands off Las Olas. That area has beautiful architecture and walking distance from the beach. So again, Hollywood doesn't have an advantage there.
"New residential loft-type development"
You should take a trip to Brickell, Park West, Design District, Flagler Village, Colee Bend, Progresso Village, etc. Has even more than Hollywood has and the architecture on a lot of these buildings are very very nice, even more so than Hollywood’s. The only place that really appeals to me architecturally in Hollywood is these town homes near Hollywood Station. Very pretty, but no match for what I have seen in the other places I named.
So now to the last question, what more could I want?
Mass Transit, a place that has thriving business, a place that has tons of art galleries and a thriving art scene. I want a place that I can see strong economic viability in. I want a place that I don't see tons and tons of homeless and mentally ill people. A place I can feel safe living in. Hollywood is "cute" but again it doesn't have much to offer in light of what the cities surrounding it have to offer. If you or anyone else likes Hollywood then to each its own, but I demand more out of a city. I demand long-term economic and social viability and from an economic standpoint, I just don't see it for Hollywood. Not to mention it is ONE of the leading cities in South Florida in the way of foreclosures, which has long term social ramifications. That place is in BIG trouble, and I really don't see what it has to offer that could pull it out of the nosedive that it is on. To pull it out it needs more than something that is a mere shadow of surrounding areas. It needs true economic viability.
Relax ...... I do not recall anyone comparing Hollywood to Miami Beach or Ft.Lauderdale .. it is just a fun place to hang out on a weekend night !!
from the reports I have read in sun sentinel I don't know about that one. They have a huge prostitution problem. There has also been murders among other things. If I find the article I will post it.
Don't frequent ho's ..... I mean prostitutes .... no problem
Relax ...... I do not recall anyone comparing Hollywood to Miami Beach or Ft.Lauderdale .. it is just a fun place to hang out on a weekend night !!
that would be a very simpleton view of the issue here. Fort Lauderdale and Miami are surrounding areas which all compete for local and tourist dollars. Everytime someone wakes up and decides to spend money in Miami or Fort Lauderdale or Boca or somewhere else in South Florida that is one less dollar the other areas had the chance to capatilize on. Everytime someone chooses plantation over the city of fort lauderdale or miramar over hollywood these two are lost oppurtunities. The same goes for everytime a busines relocates and on and on it goes. In light of that Hollywood does not stack up to the competition. If they were smart (which the city doesn't seem to be) it woudl differtiate itself by catering to mom and pop shops and fostering a more tight knit, sleepy town (sort of like surfside) look and feel but with more density. But reading about the things they are trying to do with the place, it seems they still want to try and run with the big boys in the area and that will be its down fall.
This post makes you sound like you are old and cranky enough to actually live in Ft. Myers...
So what I'm saying isnt true? I cant say the same for Raleigh or Asheville, because it's not true of those cities. But Ft. Misery?????????? So if the shoe fits.....
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