Why do you hate it here? (Miami, Fort Lauderdale: transplants, appliances, how much)

[Wild Style]

Personally, I don't hate south florida/fort lauderdale. It is a nice little city for someone seeking a more suburban life style. With that said, I would prefer to live in a big city ie nyc, chicago etc.

I love being able to walk to my destination. I love being able to catch a train and get to where i need to get to etc. I also like the diversity and abundance of jobs a major city has to offer. I did the number for rent in brooklyn versus fort lauderdale and truthfully, not much of a difference in price. At least not in the places I would want to live in either place. I also prefer colder weather (I sweat a LOT). Anyway, to each his own. If someone wants to come down here I say come on down. Just don't come down here expecting some 24/7 vacation laid back worry free lifestyle. Anyone expecting that is foolish and really is immature in how they go about making important life decisions. Come, spend time here, look at ALL aspects and then make the best decision that you think suits your needs.

[Desdemona25]

Woo hoo! Another native! Nice to meet you.

And yes, I agree. I used to be able to keep my a/c off a lot more often during December, January and February (even some of March), and could even have bills under $100/month. Now? I think I had it off for just a few days, if that. And let's not forget all the surcharges. I wouldn't have the expensive bills hit until around the August and September billing cycles. This time around I was over $200/month for my reading in June. The higher bills have been due to the surcharges and it being hotter, earlier. Boo, hiss!

Originally Posted by doggiebus

As a Native Floridian (I know I am rear to find). I hate our weather, I have never gotten used to it. Those people who tell people you get used to it are lying or just super human. When I grew up in the 80s and 90s we had a change in the temperature to the point I could wear sweaters for more than a week. I remember going trick-or-treating and it being cold.

Miami 2007 Temperatures
60s - 6 days
70s - 45 days
80s - 245 days
90s - 68 days

So that is 313 days in the 80s or 90s in 2007, which to me is Hot and Humid weather. If we had 4 months of this I could handle it, but we have it for 10 month a year basically.

[Lost in Translation]

This time around I was over $200/month for my reading in June. Boo, hiss!

This pretty much applied to my heating and A/C bill for Chicago. In fact, in dead-winter and summer, I was paying more than $200 a month for a 1,000 square-foot apartment. At least in Miami you only have one switch...

[chisoxfan]

I think my perspective is a bit like Lost in Translation's and Wild Style's -- don't hate it here, but I can understand why people do. South Florida's been a love-it-or-hate-it type of place for as long as I've lived here, and that probably won't change anytime soon.

Most of the reasons Compelled has posted for disliking the area are quite valid, but I seem to be able to deal with them. The main issue I see is that wages haven't kept up with the cost of living -- but that's becoming a problem everywhere in these days of $140/barrel oil, soaring food prices and late 1970s-style stagflation. South Florida was a bit ahead of the curve in that respect.

[mom2justynsarah]

I don't hate it here. As long as I have family & friends near me, I can live anywhere. I do miss the mountains. But I guess that's what a vacation is for.

[compelled to reply]

Lots of very interesting opinions in this thread. Many thanks to those who have participated so far! Lost in Translation especially, great way of putting it, we are in agreement. I definitely understand why people can grow to hate it, and why people yearn for what it was.

[runswithscissors]

"My opinion is that too many people moved here within the past 20 years with unrealistic expectations, expecting some kind of paradise, largely malcontent types who lack inner happiness and came looking for a cure."

I think this is an important point. Important because imo, it begs the question is the poster saying these items on the poll are exaggerated or should people have known about and committed to accept and shut up about these issues in advance or are they not even issues and people are just whiney?

I believe this statement is not supported by historical facts (nor my personal experience) about Florida. I don't think the last 20 years has anything to do with the poll points, save some traffic and congestion. And in no way supports some theory that people who move to Florida are malcontents and have some kind of emotional problem. Reading about the place of origin of FL residents is interesting and I recommend it. Florida has always been "quirky" in modern day and seriously unstable in it's origin as a territory.

I remember some statistic around the time of statehood only 1/5 th of the Florida population was Florida born whites. This is an important point since no records were kept on the place of birth of slaves and history states that at that time, slaves made up ONE HALF of the total population of the state.

I also believe that Florida has been supported by and in fact encouraged the influx of transients, tourists, part time residents, retirees, cheap labor as far back as Florida has been in existence as a territory at least, after the Native American population was decimated by invaders.

In my view, the entire matter of the current instability of aspects of Florida life goes back to the establishment of statehood here and the absence of government to utilize it's resources properly and deal with the citizen body, but rather just let them fend for themselves. Then of course, the government IS the citizen body so blame yourselves (just like anywhere).

It lies completely on the shoulders of the State and local governing bodies and can be attributed to apathy of the "native" and long time residents (if one wants to lay "blame" on a group of individuals) or people who claim to be long time residents.

1.PEOPLE MOVING TO FLORIDA

In the late 1600's, African and other slaves (by that time, there were also African-American slaves, having been born here into slavery)...were among the earliest successful people who "escaped" to freedom and community into Florida primarily from VA (the bastion of the enterprise of slavery) and SC and G.A.

Later, in the early 1700's in order to keep SC and GA in disruption, the Spanish "Governor" encouraged runaways and offered freedom to British Colonial escapees. Not because of any morality since Spain had a longstanding history of international slave trade and used slave labor throughout it's colonies. (footnote A.K. Windley, Portrait of Runaway Slaves in Va and SC).

One could argue the point that Florida from that time on, has been the destination of many, and many who perhaps didn't have a functioning crystal ball but had a "dream" and were willing to work for it. Or bring their skills and/or financial resources with them. And Florida encouraged and promoted that migration here.

My own grandmother, born in 1904, spent all of her married life summering in the Cocoa Beach area visiting her brother, a resident, all summer.

My father moved to FLL in 1962 because of a child with health problems (with the cold) and was a skilled musician commuting to the famous Fontainebleau. I've been a part time resident here ever since.

My mother bought in Tequesta in the 70's.

My son attended college in Boca 10 years ago, graduated and started a business and remained. (in downtown WPB due to his business).

My aunt moved to WPB in the early 70's as a transfer with the phone company and remained.

I just took an early retirement package and CHOSE to permanently move here [with my money] with my eyes wide open. The salient points about Florida are not new to me.

All of the aforementioned people came here KNOWING FLORIDA and brought skills, resources and contributed value to the communities. In FOUR counties and FIVE if you include my gm's brother. We accepted Florida with it's warts but it doesn't mean we break some unspoken rule if we discuss them.

I won't even go INTO the millions of snowbirds and tourists who don't seem to have a malcontent personality problem and lack inner happiness. They seem quite happy to bestow their hard owned dollars on Florida in exchange for either the Mouse or housing in a warm pleasant climate.

Further, it illustrate Florida shooting itself in the foot, from the 1930's until the late 80's FLL allowed itself gradually be hijacked by the spring break crowd until residents yelled loud enough because of damage and of course annoyance committed by the tourists. Therefore, FLL, without a good identity had the challenge to redefine itself after 70 years of party central. I consider FLL to be lucky that ANYONE MOVED HERE during the last 20 years given the lack of infrastructure for real residents imo. So NOW, we see the beach being destroyed with concrete jungle (imo) and except for the actual sand and water, it doesnt appear like any kind of destination that I'd be interested in as a resident. Staring UP at high rises from the beach doesn't turn me on.

Just last week, Nicki Grossman was quoted in the paper as saying the priority of FLL is to become a convention destination. No mention of quality of life for residents. Good luck with that, ever been to Atlantic City?


2. SCHOOLS

Florida is the South. As the 27th state (1845) , Florida was a territory longer than some other states. Florida got "late start" in some areas that other states were ahead. Such as education. Florida has ALWAYS had school "problems". I can remember this being an issue in my own lifetime when my father moved here in 1962 with 5 kids. He also complained about healthcare and we were taken back to Phila for med and dental yearly which was our "vacation".

3.CRIME/ RACISM

I'm from the Phila area, the City of Murder so I think I have a grip on "crime" versus "CRIME". First of all, it's a transient, tourist attracting state with targets abounding. Like the Boca Mall incidents. So nobody should be surprised. But the STATE and LOCAL govs have the obligation to do something about it. That means you residents too.

HELLO? Anybody remember Ted Bundy? Formerly of Vermont? Now perhaps we can call THAT guy someone who was a malcontent searching for inner happiness LOLOL.

Florida (like other places) has a history of segregating lower income citizens but here, it's in small pockets of groups just blocks away from the higher income citizens then leaving the situation fester imo. (In addition to letting whole cities become unlivable like Riviera Beach)

Florida is the South. History shows that Florida acted just like the rest of the South, lagging behind the North's so called "progressive" treatment of non whites. Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was fought in many ways even in the North. One way was to enact segregation legally. Then there was "separate but equal" which was not shot down by the Supreme Court until recent times, 1954.

Regardless of that ruling, citizens were kept segregated and until present day we still have problems such as violation of the Fair Housing Law everywhere.

Impact of hundreds of years of slavery didn't magically disappear and we still live with them. During the past century, there were many first generation slave decendents working as "servants" who stayed with their employers or close by (Palm Beach classic example). We had the same thing in Phila, a popular slave destination before and after emancipation (my place of birth) where I have been privileged to know several women who were daughters of slaves.

In particular, Alara Long, who worked as a day domestic in our city neighborhood taking three buses to get to our area every day. Claire subsequently came to live with us in the late 60's on the weekends because she loved getting away from the city when we moved out to the burbs. She was like a family member to us, we didn't even want her to work but she got bored and found stuff to do around the house.

She had her own bedroom in our home but refused to sit and eat at our table no matter what I said she wanted to eat alone. This was how she was raised. As an example. Claire lived through the murders of 6 of her grandchildren in the segregated part of the city, all random and all against young kids.

If I'm not mistaken, the announcement about the new DISNEY venture was made in 1964 the day after Martin Luther King's protest in St Augustine. Ya gotta love irony.

It seems utterly ridiculous to me, that the state of Florida, in relying on tourists, snowbirds, transients and retirees, has not funded improvements to mitigate if not eradicate the crime in the state. Especially in places like Dunbar Village, walking distance from City Place and the Kravitz center for goodness sakes or Riviera Beach, a high profile beach town and other such areas. (I don't know anything about Dade). HOW is it that the Congress is bailing out the financial pimps from the mortgage crisis in the BILLIONS and the state cannot acquire enough funding to contribute to a public housing community that's a lousy 250 units? Because they don't care what the impact is to the town, that's why. Leaving it on the shoulders of private business to "revitalize" "downtown".

Giuliani made NYC safe. Rizzo even made Philly safe(er) (albeit through controversial techniques). The fact that the areas of Florida that were segregation dumping grounds still exist are bad enough, but to not even upgrade the lousy 250 units at Dunbar and throw resources/cops at it until it straightens out? Beyond my understanding. I don't really personally care how they do it, but the burden is on the government to deal with it. (even though I understand that some residents want their "areas" to remain as sort of a historically significant location)

4. JOBS

Jobs have always been tough in Florida. For obvious reasons, there is never a surplus of workers. The state encourages and promotes low wages, service sector economy, and target tourism, AG and some clusters of medical, aerospace and manufacturing. but tourism as it's foundation. ? WAY back in the 60's my father worked numerous jobs and my siblings all moved out of Florida btw.

5. IF IT WAS CHEAPER...

Well, this will never be. A tourist destination especially beach front is not going to be cheap in any way for any reason. Only because of the real estate crash is housing becoming somewhat "do-able" for the average person. But where?

Overall, I believe that Florida's (state and local) lack of focusing on the actual residents' needs, wobbly infrastructure of dealing with non residents or new residents, and expecting a non homogeneous groups to magically gel is "the problem"... and apathy from said residents.

crime, schools, jobs, crowding, nothing to do, traffic, and I'm adding to the poll....thousands and thousands of condos and greedy zoning...........can be attributed to politics. And politics is it's RESIDENTS. Not some people who came here over the past 20 years.

Zoning allowing for the max amount of human beings in the smallest amount of space (lol) i.e. knocking down one house and replacing it with a high rise. And what exactly is the point of the thousands of condos from say, Fed to Tamarac?

6. RUDE PEOPLE

This is very broad and open for interpretation but for me there is a lack of professionalism and work ethic and a level of unfriendliness here compared to many other places. Always been that way and not likely to change. I came here knowing it.

Can be summed up by my deceased mother's immortal words in the 70's "What do you expect they're a bunch of rebels down there get used to it". LOL. She said that after her entertainment center was delivered to an empty condo 3 months early and left out on the catwalk and her neighbors didn't even bother to call her up North to tell her for a month.

7. I'm adding to the poll - the "new" issue of scams, misrepresentations and caveat emptor atmosphere here that abounds since the real estate crash. The desperation of anybody in the real estate, construction, furniture, insurance or other trickle down businesses including individual property owners having to sell or rent out has reached a new high or should I say low.

This isn't the fault of recent 20 year migrants here either... but the fault of AGAIN, Allowing the state to be hijacked by investors, speculators, builders and real estate developers and sales people to the detriment of all the citizens. (and the citizens are guilty of this, too). It's like they replaced the spring break revenue with the real estate speculation revenue.

By the way, I live in a 55+ gated community of residents who paid around 389,000 two years ago and cant even sell for 240,000. My landlord is Hispanic and lives in Weston and bought this prop to move to in a couple of years. He says Weston is going to be overcrowded and only for the non-Anglo rich in time if it holds up at all. (I guess that's an issue for him, I don't know).

Anyway, nobody here is malcontent, with inner happiness problems searching for a cure. Even though they took a financial beating, they love their lives and think they couldn't have made a better choice. They just hope they live to see their values come back and that their neighbors stop renting out to unrelated transients that have to get evicted for non payment of rent.

de-ranting now lol

[runswithscissors]

I think you'll also see different points of views between renters and homeowners.

You have renters "stuck" in a substandard (to them) neighborhood who can't afford to get out. That sucks. You have renters who can afford to move around so they have nothing really at risk but a year's lease. That group of renters can make some pretty strong assumptions about people's opinions but the fact is, imo, the Homeowner takes money and quality of life very seriously.

A wrong move means alot more than losing a year to a lease. It means potential financial ruin, and being stuck with an "unsavory element" or deteriorating property/neighboorhood, or a HOA bailout, or worse, having to move out for even YEARS after a hurricane when the HOA drags it's feet and doesnt get the roof fixed....there are SEVERAL issues a Homeowner has to deal with when plunking down hundreds of thousands of dollars or their life savings.

So I feel that Homeowners opinions are ALL of value because they're actually putting their money where their opinions are. Further, it's a marketing principle that perception is reality and each person's perception is important.

[Elvi03]

Originally Posted by Lost in Translation

This pretty much applied to my heating and A/C bill for Chicago. In fact, in dead-winter and summer, I was paying more than $200 a month for a 1,000 square-foot apartment. At least in Miami you only have one switch...

I was thinking the same thing! This past Winter I was averaging $750 a month to heat my house, and it's right about half of that right now to cool it (I don't keep the AC on most of the time). $200 sounds like a serious bargain. My mother-in-laws cooling bills, in a 700sf rental apartment was $120 this month and she's hardly ever home because she stays with us 3 days out of the week!!

[fauve]

Runswithscissors -

I LOVED your post and would love to give you more rep, but it's too soon since the last time. I think I agreed with everything you said. Great rant!