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Hello! I've always thought about Broward County needing a heavy rail system on it's own, similar to Miami-Dade's Metrorail system. I've even created a fantasy map with two lines of the proposed stations and the ROW, west to east, south to north:
All italics indicate the subway portion while not in italics indicate elevated portion.
BROWARD COUNTY HEAVY RAIL PROPOSAL (76 Stations)
RED LINE (40 Stations)
Weston Intermodal Center
S Post Rd (Saddle Club Rd)
Savannah Trail (Saddle Club Rd)
Bayside Rd (Royal Palm Blvd)
Island Way (Royal Palm Blvd)
Weston Town Center (Bonaventure Blvd)
Indian Trace (I-75)
Harrison Pkwy / S 136th Ave (Broward Blvd)
Flamingo Dr (Broward Blvd)
Hiatus Rd (Broward Blvd)
Nob Hill Rd (Broward Blvd)
Pine Island Rd (Broward Blvd)
University Dr (Broward Blvd)
SW 55th Ave (Broward Blvd)
E Acre Dr (Broward Blvd) State Rd 7 / Rt. 441 (Broward Blvd)
MLK Dr/ SW 31st Ave (Broward Blvd)
Ft. Lauderdale Intermodal Center (Broward Blvd)
NW 15th Ave (Broward Blvd)
Palm Ave (Broward Blvd)
Ave of the Arts (Broward Blvd)
Governmental Center (Broward Blvd)
Las Olas Center (Rt. 1)
SE 6th St / New River (Rt. 1)
SE 9th St / Rio Vista (Rt. 1)Ave
Davie Blvd / SE 12th St (Rt. 1)
Broward Medical Center / SE 17th St (Rt. 1)
Port Everglades / SE 24th St (Rt. 1)
Ft Lauderdale / Hollywood International Airport (Rt. 1)
Dania Beach Center (Rt. 1)
Meadowbrook (Rt. 1)
Sheridan St (Rt. 1)
Taft St (Rt. 1)
Johnson St (Rt. 1)
Pierce St (Rt. 1)
Hollywood Blvd / Young Circle (Rt. 1)
Monroe St (Rt. 1)
Washington St (Rt. 1)
Moffett St (Rt. 1)
Seville (Rt. 1)
Hallandale Beach Blvd (Rt. 1)
Gulfstream / Hallandale Beach Center (Rt. 1)
BLUE LINE (48 Stations)
Silverlakes / SW 172nd Ave (Pembroke Rd)
SW 160th Ave (Pembroke Rd)
SW 145th Ave (Pembroke Rd)
SW 136th Ave (Pembroke Rd)
Flamingo Rd (Pembroke Rd)
Hiatus Rd (Pembroke Rd)
Palm Ave (Pembroke Rd)
SW 89th Ave (Pembroke Rd)
University Dr (Pembroke Rd)
SW 72nd Ave (Pembroke Rd)
SW 62nd Ave (Pembroke Rd)
SW 56th Ave (Pembroke Rd)
SW 40th Ave (Pembroke Rd) Orangebrook (Pembroke Rd)
S 26th Ave (Pembroke Rd)
Dixie Hwy (Pembroke Rd)
Washington St (Rt. 1)
Monroe St (Rt. 1)
Hollywood Blvd / Young Circle (Rt. 1)
Pierce St (Rt. 1)
Johnson St (Rt. 1)
Taft St (Rt. 1)
Sheridan St (Rt. 1)
Meadowbrook (Rt. 1)
Dania Beach Center (Rt. 1)
Ft Lauderdale / Hollywood International Airport (Rt. 1)
Port Everglades / SE 24th St (Rt. 1)
Broward Medical Center / SE 17th St (Rt. 1)
Davie Blvd / SE 12th St (Rt. 1)
Rio Vista / SE 9th St (Rt. 1)
New River / SE 6th St (Rt. 1)
Las Olas Center (Rt. 1)
NE 4th St (Rt. 1)
NE 6th St (Rt. 1)
NE 8th St (Rt. 1)
Sunrise Blvd (NE 4th Ave)
NE 13th St (NE 4th Ave)
NE 16th St (NE 4th Ave)
Wilton Manors (Wilton Dr)
Oakland Park Blvd (Dixie Hwy)
NE 38th St (Dixie Hwy)
Oakland Park Center (Dixie Hwy)
NE 56th St (Dixie Hwy)
Cypress Creek Rd / NE 62nd St (Dixie Hwy)
McNab Rd (Dixie Hwy)
Pompano Beach Center (Atlantic Beach Blvd)
NW 3rd St (I-95)
NW 15th St (I-95)
Copans Rd (I-95)
Sample Rd (Military Trail)
Last edited by wanderer34; 10-05-2023 at 03:18 PM..
Reason: Adding pic...
This would be massively game changing. Linking the far-flung western suburbs with the more urbanized areas in the east would be great. I also like that there's overlap between the two lines in the east, which is where heavier ridership would be. I wonder if the square could be completed out west, maybe north-south along 75. I know Sunrise has something resembling a "downtown west" out by the mall. I might add another east-west link up near SW10th or thereabouts as well.
Lots of promises and payoffs.
They will blow a trillion dollars (construction and land acquisition/eminent domain) financed with 30 yr bonds
Only poor people will ride it and it will have a 10% occupancy rate.
Revenue shortfall can't pay the bond debt so it falls back on the taxpayers.
Remember the bad math on the Las Olas underground Elon Musk beach tunnel? This loop could take the city into the 21st century, they believe. It would shuttle passengers about 2.5 miles underground in Tesla cars, going from downtown to Fort Lauderdale beach in about three minutes. It was 90 million estimate for 2.5 miles!
WOW!!! It really took 10 days just to get this thread a few responses. Here we go:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Lessman
This would be massively game changing. Linking the far-flung western suburbs with the more urbanized areas in the east would be great. I also like that there's overlap between the two lines in the east, which is where heavier ridership would be. I wonder if the square could be completed out west, maybe north-south along 75. I know Sunrise has something resembling a "downtown west" out by the mall. I might add another east-west link up near SW10th or thereabouts as well.
I believe that the overlap is necessary since we're dealing with suburban cities such as Weston, Plantation, Pembroke Pines, and Miramar. Also, there's no "square" that you talk about, as the system was deigned to take commuters from far flung communities into the CBDs in Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood and back. If somebody can design a better proposal, then it would be nice, but this map was a concept I had since Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood are supposed to be the centers of Broward County.
I would say that once you go west of State Rd 7, which may be considered the boundary of suburban and urban Broward County, that's when you start encountering the more suburban portions of Broward County. You can also develop TODs along the lines within a mile, but it was just as important to maintain the suburban integrity of communities within western Broward County, while allowing Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood to fully densify into truly urban cities within Broward County.
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S
I'll give you a preview:
Lots of promises and payoffs.
They will blow a trillion dollars (construction and land acquisition/eminent domain) financed with 30 yr bonds
Only poor people will ride it and it will have a 10% occupancy rate.
Revenue shortfall can't pay the bond debt so it falls back on the taxpayers.
Remember the bad math on the Las Olas underground Elon Musk beach tunnel? This loop could take the city into the 21st century, they believe. It would shuttle passengers about 2.5 miles underground in Tesla cars, going from downtown to Fort Lauderdale beach in about three minutes. It was 90 million estimate for 2.5 miles!
The hyperloop is basically a pie-in-the-sky gimmick that I felt wasn't going to see the time of day. It's one thing that a city like Vegas can create such a project, and it's another thing that an established community like Miami and Ft Lauderdale can even think of such a project. It's just best to create and construct a mass transit system, whether it be above or below ground.
And the negative prognostication won't help. As Broward County continues to grow in population, it's going to need some sort of mass transit system and buses just won't count. So much for being the "City Guy" when you do realize that cities need to survive by having a viable mass transit system within their jurisdictions.
The hyperloop is basically a pie-in-the-sky gimmick that I felt wasn't going to see the time of day. It's one thing that a city like Vegas can create such a project, and it's another thing that an established community like Miami and Ft Lauderdale can even think of such a project. It's just best to create and construct a mass transit system, whether it be above or below ground.
And the negative prognostication won't help. As Broward County continues to grow in population, it's going to need some sort of mass transit system and buses just won't count. So much for being the "City Guy" when you do realize that cities need to survive by having a viable mass transit system within their jurisdictions.
Ok, lets start in with the fact Las Vegas is 6 years older than Fort Lauderdale........comparing when they were incorporated as actual cities.
The population can only grow if people have a place to live and its pretty much built out. Sure downtown will have new condos replacing smaller buildings but those people won't want/need a train ride west to 441.
Lets also consider in the 15 years from 2005-2020 Broward's population hasn't really exploded, though Covid may change those numbers in the next few years of data.
Lobbyists- think of all the car dealers in Broward or the road construction companies that have decades long relationships with the communities that will be expected to vote/pay for the fantasy rail.
Floridians love their cars, parking is tough in some areas but not NYC tough so nobody will be interested in taking a train to 441 then walking/bike riding to their job. I moved to Broward in 1975 and other than school buses I have never ridden a city/county bus. I've used the tri-rail a handful of times (usually airport related, saves hundreds of dollars in airport parking fees).
I agree regarding especially the need for east-west options but feel the work involved and expenditure required are about 40 years too late. While not as sexy, BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) has shown to be an effective system with much less capital budget and construction disruption plus the flexibility to alter if needed. An example here in the US is the Healthline, part of Cleveland's rapid transit system. https://www.riderta.com/healthline/about
I agree regarding especially the need for east-west options but feel the work involved and expenditure required are about 40 years too late. While not as sexy, BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) has shown to be an effective system with much less capital budget and construction disruption plus the flexibility to alter if needed. An example here in the US is the Healthline, part of Cleveland's rapid transit system. https://www.riderta.com/healthline/about
I believe BRT can work in some sections of Broward, but the two main cities (Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood) do need a heavy rail equivalent similar to Metrorail in Miami and the DC Metro. I think placing a BRT along State Rd 7 may help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S
Ok, lets start in with the fact Las Vegas is 6 years older than Fort Lauderdale........comparing when they were incorporated as actual cities.
The population can only grow if people have a place to live and its pretty much built out. Sure downtown will have new condos replacing smaller buildings but those people won't want/need a train ride west to 441.
Lets also consider in the 15 years from 2005-2020 Broward's population hasn't really exploded, though Covid may change those numbers in the next few years of data.
Lobbyists- think of all the car dealers in Broward or the road construction companies that have decades long relationships with the communities that will be expected to vote/pay for the fantasy rail.
Floridians love their cars, parking is tough in some areas but not NYC tough so nobody will be interested in taking a train to 441 then walking/bike riding to their job. I moved to Broward in 1975 and other than school buses I have never ridden a city/county bus. I've used the tri-rail a handful of times (usually airport related, saves hundreds of dollars in airport parking fees).
There's still a lot more space to work with in South FL. But as the population continues to grow, it's going to be apparent that parts of Broward County are going to need some sort of heavy/light rail system. And Broward doesn't need robust growth just to build such a system, as 10% population growth is healthy enough for Broward to enhance it's mobility around Ft Lauderdale, Hollywood, and the selected far flung areas.
Much of FL was built with the car in mind, but urban parts of FL such as South FL, Tampa Bay, Orlando, and even Jacksonville are going to have to change it's mobility options as the populations of those areas continues to grow abundantly. FL doesn't have to be completely built out like NY in order for people to move, as FL can subsidize density in cities like Miami, Ft Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, and even cities like parts of Orlando and Tampa can create certain dense neighborhoods in order to organically foster healthy smart growth.
There's still a lot more space to work with in South FL. But as the population continues to grow, it's going to be apparent that parts of Broward County are going to need some sort of heavy/light rail system. And Broward doesn't need robust growth just to build such a system, as 10% population growth is healthy enough for Broward to enhance it's mobility around Ft Lauderdale, Hollywood, and the selected far flung areas.
Much of FL was built with the car in mind, but urban parts of FL such as South FL, Tampa Bay, Orlando, and even Jacksonville are going to have to change it's mobility options as the populations of those areas continues to grow abundantly. FL doesn't have to be completely built out like NY in order for people to move, as FL can subsidize density in cities like Miami, Ft Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, and even cities like parts of Orlando and Tampa can create certain dense neighborhoods in order to organically foster healthy smart growth.
Still a lot more space? Really..........Where? Weston and Parkland already abut the Everglades and those communities are 30+ years old (Parkland is 60+). Those "booms" are long since over.
Jacksonville is 600 sq miles, sure they have room to grow but who wants to live there?
You are missing 2 key ingredients in your fantasy rail: Money and Interest.......more specifically those with money have no interest in the concept. Tri-Rail loses like 100 million a year and less than 8,000 people a day use it! That is simply bad math without county/state/federal subsidies the TriRail would be shut down. Also keep in mind its almost 30 years old and has NEVER had revenue more than 10% of the actual cost to run it (90% short of breaking even).
The government would be better off shutting the thing down and let 8000 people find another way to work.
Still a lot more space? Really..........Where? Weston and Parkland already abut the Everglades and those communities are 30+ years old (Parkland is 60+). Those "booms" are long since over.
Jacksonville is 600 sq miles, sure they have room to grow but who wants to live there?
You are missing 2 key ingredients in your fantasy rail: Money and Interest.......more specifically those with money have no interest in the concept. Tri-Rail loses like 100 million a year and less than 8,000 people a day use it! That is simply bad math without county/state/federal subsidies the TriRail would be shut down. Also keep in mind its almost 30 years old and has NEVER had revenue more than 10% of the actual cost to run it (90% short of breaking even).
The government would be better off shutting the thing down and let 8000 people find another way to work.
So you're saying that you'd just shut down an entire system just because only 8K people use it? Where's the figures for Tri-Rail ridership to back up your claims, because I believe it should be much more than the 8K that you claim. It's no LIRR, NJT, Metra, or MARC, but it's an effective system and people do use the system to get to and from work.
Tri-Rail is subsided by Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach Counties, so if you have issues with Tri-Rail-Rail, you should take it up to those counties. As South FL grows, and more congestion starts to form in not just Miami, but Ft Lauderdale, Boca Raton, West Palm Beach, and throughout South FL, more mass transit is going to be needed to provide alternative mobility throughout the region, the automobile can't be the sole mode of transport in South FL, and if that was the case, the n South FL would look like Metro Detroit and Metro Atlanta outside of the Perimeter: two areas that don't have any mass transit options.
Still a lot more space? Really..........Where? Weston and Parkland already abut the Everglades and those communities are 30+ years old (Parkland is 60+). Those "booms" are long since over.
Jacksonville is 600 sq miles, sure they have room to grow but who wants to live there?
You are missing 2 key ingredients in your fantasy rail: Money and Interest.......more specifically those with money have no interest in the concept. Tri-Rail loses like 100 million a year and less than 8,000 people a day use it! That is simply bad math without county/state/federal subsidies the TriRail would be shut down. Also keep in mind its almost 30 years old and has NEVER had revenue more than 10% of the actual cost to run it (90% short of breaking even).
The government would be better off shutting the thing down and let 8000 people find another way to work.
Please cite the sources you are using about tri rail. Otherwise you’re just making things up.
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That is simply bad math without county/state/federal subsidies the TriRail would be shut down. Also keep in mind its almost 30 years old and has NEVER had revenue more than 10% of the actual cost to run it (90% short of breaking even).
