Possible to build another heavy rail system for Broward County? (Miami: violent crime, home)

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

I’m pretty sure that if Broward County invested in a heavy rail system, although the system may lose money by itself, the overall revenue for Broward will increase, as well as productivity and vitality, and while I didn’t want to broach this subject, real estate values can increase, meaning that Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood would have to force themselves to be more dense not like NY and SF, but somewhat similar to what Miami has right now.

When Miami gets even denser, Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood have to get just as dense, if not denser than Miami. It’s only destiny that Miami grows bigger, so Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood can grow with the rest of South FL.

Invest = "may lose money" but revenue increases?



A. Broward doesn't have a nickel of extra money
B. They could better spend the money they already lose
C. Real estate can increase completely on its own without the imaginary rail

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by StarryKnight1

South Florida actually has five rail services: Metrorail, Metromover, Amtrak, Tri-Rail, and Brightline. 7 if you include the Skytrain and the E-Mover at MIA.

Thx, I just see the Green tri-rail, and Orange Brite Line ones most know about. I knwo they're both losing money if you back out gov't subsidies.

Are any of the others making real profit w/o gov't handouts? I doubt it.

Work from home will kill off mass transit, so its an even worse investent now than it used to be.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

The road is paid for with gas taxes........you pump, you pay!

Keep in mind it is for personal transportation, its for commerce (trucking), local business and community buses so literally everyone uses the roads unlike tri-rail that only 6400 people a day use on weekdays.

LOL. No, it isn't. It's not even close.

Your gas taxes only pay for the state and federal roads and those taxes only cover 63% of those expenses. You can verify this in 5 minutes by looking up the FDOT budget for any year. Those roads are also only 11% of the whole network.

So all of your gas taxes only cover 63% of the costs on 11% of the road network.

The rest of the money for highways comes from the general fund and all of the money for the rest of the streets and roads comes from property taxes.

6400 people per day?

6400 cars * 30 ft = 192,000 ft. / 5280 ft. = 36 miles / 3 lanes = a 12 mile long traffic jam twice a day.

That's why we have trains.

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

LOL. No, it isn't. It's not even close.

Your gas taxes only pay for the state and federal roads and those taxes only cover 63% of those expenses. You can verify this in 5 minutes by looking up the FDOT budget for any year. Those roads are also only 11% of the whole network.

So all of your gas taxes only cover 63% of the costs on 11% of the road network.

The rest of the money for highways comes from the general fund and all of the money for the rest of the streets and roads comes from property taxes.

6400 people per day?

6400 cars * 30 ft = 192,000 ft. / 5280 ft. = 36 miles / 3 lanes = a 12 mile long traffic jam twice a day.

That's why we have trains.

Don't let the math hurt your head:

A. Not all of those riders would buy cars
B. 30 ft? 20ft would be a better average unless you think there will be 15 ft between cars in a traffic jam
C. You do realize some of those cars are already on the roads, people drive to the train station/park.
D. Using your math, would you want 63% of something paid for by gas tax or be on the hook for something that only a few use and yet it still loses 100 million a year?

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

Don't let the math hurt your head:

A. Not all of those riders would buy cars

So wait, you don't want to fund transit but you don't want everyone to drive? Explain how that works.

B. 30 ft? 20ft would be a better average unless you think there will be 15 ft between cars in a traffic jam

You can find an aerial view of traffic online. 30 ft. is already extremely generous.

C. You do realize some of those cars are already on the roads, people drive to the train station/park.

LOL. Sure, OK, so on their way to work they pass the train station that is now closed and then what do they do?

D. Using your math, would you want 63% of something paid for by gas tax or be on the hook for something that only a few use and yet it still loses 100 million a year?

Not *my* math. It's FDOTs math - you haven't told us how much the road costs to maintain every year + ancillary costs not in the budget like police and fire, how much it would cost to build new roads for those 6,400 cars and how much to maintain them every year, then how much are the increased costs of delays.

Once you answer those then we can compare losses.

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

So wait, you don't want to fund transit but you don't want everyone to drive? Explain how that works.



You can find an aerial view of traffic online. 30 ft. is already extremely generous.



LOL. Sure, OK, so on their way to work they pass the train station that is now closed and then what do they do?



Not *my* math. It's FDOTs math - you haven't told us how much the road costs to maintain every year + ancillary costs not in the budget like police and fire, how much it would cost to build new roads for those 6,400 cars and how much to maintain them every year, then how much are the increased costs of delays.

Once you answer those then we can compare losses.

You seem to have all the answers but the fact of the matter is the roads are mandatory, the rail is a "loss leader pipe dream that not nearly enough people use"

Can Florida survive without roads...............no

Can Florida shelve tri-rail and be just fine........yes, plus 100 million richer annually!

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

You seem to have all the answers but the fact of the matter is the roads are mandatory, the rail is a "loss leader pipe dream that not nearly enough people use"

Can Florida survive without roads...............no

Can Florida shelve tri-rail and be just fine........yes, plus 100 million richer annually!

That's projection my friend. I have some answers because I work in transportation. But then I also know what I don't know. You, on the other hand, seem to be pretending to be an expert on something you don't actually understand. You can't even tell us where those extra cars will go.

Big cities need roads and rails. Show me a metro area bigger than Tampa - anywhere in the world - that doesn't have a rail system and you'll be showing me Detroit or some 3rd world death trap.

[Vinnyvette]

No one’s interested in your rapid transit plan. We like the independence and autonomy of our cars. And… we don’t want to deal with the scum who make regular use of public transit.

[StarryKnight1]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Thx, I just see the Green tri-rail, and Orange Brite Line ones most know about. I knwo they're both losing money if you back out gov't subsidies.

Are any of the others making real profit w/o gov't handouts? I doubt it.

Work from home will kill off mass transit, so its an even worse investent now than it used to be.

Public transit isn’t supposed to be a profit making business. If it was, it would be failing entirely. The purpose is actually to provide a service, not to generate profits.

[HeartofFlorida]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

That's projection my friend. I have some answers because I work in transportation. But then I also know what I don't know. You, on the other hand, seem to be pretending to be an expert on something you don't actually understand. You can't even tell us where those extra cars will go.

Big cities need roads and rails. Show me a metro area bigger than Tampa - anywhere in the world - that doesn't have a rail system and you'll be showing me Detroit or some 3rd world death trap.

Detroit does have a people mover system, unless for the purposes of this thread it doesn't count lol.