Possible to build another heavy rail system for Broward County? (Miami: mover, how much)

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

So you're saying that you'd just shut down an entire system just because only 8K people use it? Where's the figures for Tri-Rail ridership to back up your claims, because I believe it should be much more than the 8K that you claim. It's no LIRR, NJT, Metra, or MARC, but it's an effective system and people do use the system to get to and from work.

Tri-Rail is subsided by Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach Counties, so if you have issues with Tri-Rail-Rail, you should take it up to those counties. As South FL grows, and more congestion starts to form in not just Miami, but Ft Lauderdale, Boca Raton, West Palm Beach, and throughout South FL, more mass transit is going to be needed to provide alternative mobility throughout the region, the automobile can't be the sole mode of transport in South FL, and if that was the case, the n South FL would look like Metro Detroit and Metro Atlanta outside of the Perimeter: two areas that don't have any mass transit options.

Originally Posted by StarryKnight1

Please cite the sources you are using about tri rail. Otherwise you’re just making things up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-Rail
Start here..........

By 2018, fare revenue was budgeted at $13.4 million, whereas operating expense was $119.8 million.

Keep in mind this is pre-Covid/stay home...........the fares totalled 13MM but it cost almost 120MM to run! Lost 107 million dollars in one year!

Scroll down to the chart:

Year total riders Avg weekday
2010 3,645,000 -3.8% 12,300
2011 3,947,900 +8.3% 13,300
2012 4,070,700 +3.1% 14,300
2013 4,350,782 +6.9% 14,800
2014 4,389,600 +1.0% 14,400
2015 4,292,705 -1.0% 13,900
2016 4,240,699[65] -1.0% 13,900
2017 4,287,400[66] +1.1% 13,900
2018 4,413,900[67] +2.9% 13,900
2019 4,505,100[68] +2.0% 13,900
2020 2,204,500 -51.1% 6,400


2020- 2.2mm riders total and an average of 6400 per weekday.

Wait until all the Covid years hit that chart.............

There are plenty of articles outlining tri-rail but this is pretty simple to read and the sources are outlined at the bottom of the article.

[City Guy997S]

So after Wanderer and Starry read up on some facts and the ridiculous losses tri-rail incurs then maybe lets forget the fantasy rail expansion and look at the hard numbers of the existing tri-rail nobody uses. You would have to increase the fares by 900% in order for this thing to break even! So if someone goes 1 zone now for $3, the actual price would have to be $27 each way in order for it to break even. Nobody is going to pay $54 round trip to go to work!

I have used it to get to the Miami airport. The fare was $5 each person, each way unlimited distance on weekends whether I boarded from West Palm or Hialeah. I get it, its a loss leader for the weekends.
Ad: (On weekends and holidays, Tri-Rail railroad offers $5 all-day fares for its train routes in South Florida. Pay $5 and ride to & from wherever you want)

If I was to go from West Palm to Miami airport weekdays it would be $17.50 each person/each way (73 miles of distance). If I drove a big SUV I couldn't get there for less than about $15 in fuel each way. Of course if I had 3-4 people with me then driving wins by a mile. Keep in mind the news stations are doing evaluations/stories on this same idea but using the Brightline to Orlando vs. driving equation. Brightline is $79 per adult, $39 per child so the math quickly falls apart for a family of 4-5 going to Orlando vs. driving.

[wanderer34]

According to the chart that you linked up, it seems like the Tri Rail commuters was going up until COVID hit in 2020. We could see a few more years of stagnant growth until the South GL cities start to grow where there’s a major demand for employment in the major cities, to the point where a lot of employers are going to want their workers to come back for work. Some places will allow for work-at-home policies, but a majority of employers are going to want their workers to come back to the workplace and that’s just an inevitable fact.

[beach43ofus]

South Florida already has 2 people moving rail systems losing money, do they really need a 3rd?

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-Rail
Start here..........

By 2018, fare revenue was budgeted at $13.4 million, whereas operating expense was $119.8 million.

Keep in mind this is pre-Covid/stay home...........the fares totalled 13MM but it cost almost 120MM to run! Lost 107 million dollars in one year!

Now tell us how much the road network loses every year.

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

Now tell us how much the road network loses every year.

The road is paid for with gas taxes........you pump, you pay!

Keep in mind it is for personal transportation, its for commerce (trucking), local business and community buses so literally everyone uses the roads unlike tri-rail that only 6400 people a day use on weekdays.

[StarryKnight1]

I don’t think the Tri-Rail is meant to be a cash cow profit driven business. It’s a service provided by the government, not a public company.

[StarryKnight1]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

South Florida already has 2 people moving rail systems losing money, do they really need a 3rd?

South Florida actually has five rail services: Metrorail, Metromover, Amtrak, Tri-Rail, and Brightline. 7 if you include the Skytrain and the E-Mover at MIA.

[StarryKnight1]

Originally Posted by StarryKnight1

South Florida actually has five rail services: Metrorail, Metromover, Amtrak, Tri-Rail, and Brightline. 7 if you include the Skytrain and the E-Mover at MIA.

8 if you include the MIA Mover between the airport and rental car center at MIA.

[wanderer34]

I’m pretty sure that if Broward County invested in a heavy rail system, although the system may lose money by itself, the overall revenue for Broward will increase, as well as productivity and vitality, and while I didn’t want to broach this subject, real estate values can increase, meaning that Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood would have to force themselves to be more dense not like NY and SF, but somewhat similar to what Miami has right now.

When Miami gets even denser, Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood have to get just as dense, if not denser than Miami. It’s only destiny that Miami grows bigger, so Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood can grow with the rest of South FL.