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There's info on both sides. I've been doing rescue for over 15 years now and after looking at all the data and statistics, we spay between 4 and 6 months of age, given the choice. Not only does it cut down the risk of cancers, it prevents those hormones from even getting started and causing problems.
I've pulled two puppies from shelters that mandated they be S/N before they could be released. They were both around 2 months. Neither had any ill-effects from it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and given the choice I'd have given them at least 2 or 3 more months before doing it. But it was spay / neuter then and pull or they'd have been killed in the shelter.
I think the 'let them have a cycle' or 'let them have a litter' is very old school and ultimately much more dangerous in the long run. My vet doesn't do juvi S/N, period, and I agree. To do the others I had to use a different vet. It saved their life, but I'd much rather have waited. By 4 to 6 months of age - unless you're talking about one of the giant breeds - they're pretty close to about grown. The small breeds are full grown. So the chances of the issues coming up are just about eliminated.
Your vet is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and has a lot of data to back up his assertion. At this point in time there is no way I would alter an animal until it was completely grown at about 3 years. Males - I would probably keep intact forever.
I will add that I have never been responsible for one puppy being conceived.
There are a lot of threads on this aleady - just old ones.
I agree with you, Granny. I find that unaltered animals (or those that are altered after a first cycle) are healthier. However, it is always a gamble as it really depends on the dog.
Unfortunately, the decision to spay depends on many incontrollable factors, the size of the dog and family history being two of the most important. As other posters have stated, incontinence is also an issue with dogs that are spayed too early. And while the risk of mammary cancers declines with spaying, it is only beneficial to those that are at risk [genetically] for such cancers. Moreover, spaying can increase the risk of cancer in dogs who are [genetically] at risk for other cancers that increase due to spaying. This is why family history is so important, and why the decision to spay is so difficult: it all depends on the dog.
Re: shelters and their decision to spay, they are dealing mostly with dogs whose family histories are not available. They are also single-mindedly trying to reduce the numbers of unwanted pets. In short, they are not really reliable as consultants as they are not able to [objectively] tell anyone what is best for his/her pet. In that kind of work, it is more about what is best for most dogs rather than an individual dog.
To the OP: good luck with your decision; it's not an easy one.
My whole family, including myself have been told in the past that all of our animals should be spayed no later than 6 months. And we have followed those instructions for all our cats and our past dog.
I took my newly adopted 8 month old lab to the vet today to get her a check-up and inquire about getting her spayed. My husband and I were extremely surprised when he said he recommends to wait to spay until after the first heat cycle. He explained that sometimes when spaying a puppy before their first heat cycle, it can end up causing the dog to become incontinence. We were both very surprised to hear our vet recommending this. He explained that when spaying before the first heat cycle it can cause the dog to leak pee (without realizing it) b/c the estrogen from the first heat cycle helps make the bladder stronger. I personally have never heard of this before. However I have done some research online and found it to be true. He also told us that if she is able to go through her first heat cycle it will help her to reduce mammary gland tumors. I was not able to find this information online. I was under the impression if you spay early, you can prevent that...not cause it from spaying too early.
Has anyone ever heard of this? I then asked him when they typically recommend to spay. He stated the vet office (there are 3 doctors in this practice and 2 of them own the practice) recommends 6 months but he recommends after the first heat cycle due to the possibility of incontinence and mammary gland tumors. The vet I met with is not an owner of the practice. I've been going to this practice for many, many years (perhaps 20 years or so).
Now, I am really confused. I'm curious to see what everyone's opinions are on this and if you have had any issues with your spayed dog and incontinence. My original plan was to get her spayed this week coming up but now we are really confused as to wait for the first heat cycle or not. I'd also hate to think about her bleeding on my carpets and floors. Trust me when I say, I am all for spaying and just want to know when the right time is to do it. I was under the impression b/c the dog is 8 months already that she should have gotten this done but our vet is really confusing us.
Thanks for any info you guys can provide.
Your vet is very wise. It is true that spaying a dog too early can cause that problem.
I have had a LOT of dogs and cats in my lifetime and all of them were neutered at 6 months of age or earlier. None of them ever had any issues. I think the possibility of getting knocked up far out weighs any issues that MAY (or may not) appear later down the road.
This is a large breed thing. The rescue we use REQUIRES that you not spay before the first cycle. In Newfies the females actually get larger if you don't and the joints are far more likely to have issues as the hormones from the heat cycle close up the growth plates on the bones. It is pretty much universal on the newf group I am on that you should wait.
I worked as a vet tech for 10 years and we saw numerous cases of mammary tumors and very few cases of incontinence. I adopted a dobe that had PUPPIES, so we KNOW she went through a heat cycle and she developed incontinence.
I worked as a vet tech for 10 years and we saw numerous cases of mammary tumors and very few cases of incontinence. I adopted a dobe that had PUPPIES, so we KNOW she went through a heat cycle and she developed incontinence.
You know, it's really just common sense to me. In some ways, we're like our dogs... females, that is.
Older dogs who've never had a litter and women who've never given birth both have higher instances of breast cancer (mammary tumers)... Letting a dog go through a heat cycle is not going to cause mammary tumors.
Two things that can cause incontinence in women is childbirth and hormonal withdrawal caused by the change of life or even an early hystercomy....
For dogs that have incontinence and have been spayed early, they prescribe low dose hormone treatment -- just like they have done for human women who experience incontinence after the change.
It's just logical.
Last edited by World Citizen; 05-24-2010 at 11:01 AM..
You know, it's really just common sense to me. In some ways, we're like our dogs... females, that is.
Older dogs who've never had a litter and adult women who've never given birth both have higher instances of breast cancer (mammary tumers)...
Letting a young dog grow up and go through a heat cycle is not going to cause mammary tumors.
Two things that can cause incontinence in women is childbirth and hormonal withdrawal caused by the change of life or even an early hystercomy....
For dogs that have incontinence and have been spayed early, they prescribe low dose hormone treatment -- just like they have done for women who experience incontinence after the change.
Hormones have much to do with normal development of animals and people. Spaying a dog too soon is not a good idea.
It's just logical.
and, btw,...
I didn't adopt an adorable, female German Shepherd puppy from the kennel because I thought she was too young to be spayed and they would not release her without being spayed. This poster is fortunate and has the option of waiting until her dog goes through heat.
Why would anyone argue with the advice of her veterinarian on this subject ???
Last edited by World Citizen; 05-24-2010 at 11:16 AM..
Why would anyone argue with the advice of her veterinarian on this subject ???
Because there are just as many vets that say you should not allow them to go through a heat cycle at all. We've got a local vet here - very old school - that still insists all females should have a litter before you have them spayed, if you plan on spaying.
There's as much reason and studies and statistics showing that spaying before a heat is better as there are those showing it's better to wait until after a heat cycle. Just like all studies. Pros and cons on both sides.
After the time I've spend in rescue and as a pet owner, it's my preference to spay prior to heat cycle but after at least 4 months of age. Both vets I use and the clinic all support the pre-heat cycle spay. None support the juvi spay / neuter, which I also agree with. I think juvi S/N is where a lot of problems come from.
I think the having a litter thing is very old school and I don't go there. I think the heat before spay is breed dependent and the research supporting it is really recent. With large breeds I think it really is a good idea to wait for a heat to spay, the increase in joint health is worth the very small increase in cancer rate. I don't have the stats to prove it but my gut feel is that the large breeds lose more in longevity to joint issues than they would for the slightly increased cancer rate from the one heat. For a small breed I would do the early spay.
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far out weighs any issues that MAY (or may not) appear later down the road.
and she developed incontinence.
