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A previous thread asking about this was tied to the Scottish independence vote, and was shut down due to the Scottish question becoming a dead issue. So while I understand the mods reason for closing that thread, I'd still like to discuss the general question about whether NI should leave the UK and/or will it ever be reunified with the whole of Ireland?
For example, here is a running dialog from the other thread in which I had made the following comment to which Tallybalt had responded as follows;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 That "opinion" poll seems biased as does the reporter. I have seen polls where UK citizens want to be done with NI due to the sectarian violence/crime, and the economic drain it has on the rest of the UK. I have also seen polls where the subject of a unified Ireland polls much closer than what this article says.
Regardless, what most people do not realize is that virtually every political party in the Republic has within its charter an ambition of a united Ireland. It is not something regularly campaigned upon, since it is a moot point until a majority of people in NI vote for it to become a reality, as per the GFA.
Aside from the need of economic strength of the Republic to be in place as I mentioned earlier, those use to the welfare teat in NI must be convinced to stand on their own two feet. Sadly many people may want reunification, but put their own greedy personal interests ahead of it.
The political parties in the Republic included the objective of a unified Ireland in their charters a long time ago, when sentiments were strongly anti-British and pro-Independence. As you pointed out, it's not a campaign issue these days so it's not an issue at all. Just something left over from the past.
If you ask a random selection of people across Ireland about Northern Ireland, most will shrug. The younger generation in particular. I don't doubt that the majority like the notion of a unified Ireland, but as I mentioned such moves comes with tremendous political headaches that will make the unification politically troublesome and problematic to the point that I suspect the vast majority of the Irish population, both North and South, are content to let sleeping dogs lie.
There's nothing "greedy" about rejecting or wanting unification.
First of all, you misunderstood my comment about being greedy. Clearly wanting or not wanting unification has nothing to do with greed. My point was that people living in NI receiving financial aid/welfare from the UK, might put their own personal interests of continuing to receive it above their personal desire to want reunification.
As to the idea that people, especially the young don't give a flip, that has not been my experience in having asked people this very question, both in person(granted limited sampling), and via forum threads like this one. Granted the younger generation might be as involved or adamant as their parents/grandparents, but there I still a desire among many. However without passion about the issue, one wonders what catalyst it would take to bring the issue to the front burner?
So I'd like to discuss these and other issues related to the subject.
I do not have the interest or desire to delve into another long debate about Northern Ireland but I will go out on this note:
If you imply that many people (enough to tip the balance in favor of remaining with the UK) are supporting the status quo in order to continue receiving government assistance from the UK state, then unification is obviously not a major issue for them. It's not a burning passion.
Found another poll from the Belfast Telegraph two years ago:
First of all, you misunderstood my comment about being greedy. Clearly wanting or not wanting unification has nothing to do with greed. My point was that people living in NI receiving financial aid/welfare from the UK, might put their own personal interests of continuing to receive it above their personal desire to want reunification.
So I'd like to discuss these and other issues related to the subject.
I do not have the interest or desire to delve into another long debate about Northern Ireland but I will go out on this note:
If you imply that many people (enough to tip the balance in favor of remaining with the UK) are supporting the status quo in order to continue receiving government assistance from the UK state, then unification is obviously not a major issue for them. It's not a burning passion.
Found another poll from the Belfast Telegraph two years ago:
My goal is not to debate, rather discuss the issue.
I tend to agree with you regarding passion being lacked when those on the UK's dole don't want to give it up. I spoke to an Irish woman about this just a few weeks ago to where she said two of her relatives who live in NI want to remain with the UK. She said in their hearts they want unification, but they get to much goodies from the UK that they know the Republic would not give them.
I am suspect of polls by British sourced newspapers, especially when the numbers are so different than others I've seen. I am sure if they polled those on Shankhill Road the 7% is probably about right. The Guardian did a poll a few years ago, and while the pro unionist/loyalist view lead, it was only by 18% as I recall.
The GFA has held the relative peace when many scoffed at Sinn Fein being able to deliver on the IRA disarmament and acceptance of the peace process. My suspicion is that if the people of NI vote for reunification, there will be more problems from the DUP and the loyalist groups that support them politically.
I think it is a long way off. The Republic of Ireland has a lot of issues regarding the economy and Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK at present. Possibly in the future if circumstances change it could happen. If the Republic's economy improves and Northern Ireland becomes less reliant on the UK's purse strings.
I also think that the younger people of NI will be less divided by religion in the future. I really think that most people just want a peaceful life and good prospects. That is the thing that will be more important.
I think it is a long way off. The Republic of Ireland has a lot of issues regarding the economy and Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK at present. Possibly in the future if circumstances change it could happen. If the Republic's economy improves and Northern Ireland becomes less reliant on the UK's purse strings.
I also think that the younger people of NI will be less divided by religion in the future. I really think that most people just want a peaceful life and good prospects. That is the thing that will be more important.
Id like to think so... but it takes teaching in the home and schools tae get people thinking in a new way... when I was over there I saw so many places to help for people contemplating suicide, Id never seen that before, this is what the fighting for years has caused ..their economy could have been great if the fighting would have stopped sooner..
^ Both yours and Bernie's points are on the money.
I was over there before the flag controversy started up just recently, but it seemed to me as if many businesses were busy, and the Titanic museum was certainly bringing in a large number of tourists.
As to the divide, I think it is more along the ethic divide rather than a religious one. Sure there is a religious component, but it seems to be a related cause, rather than the primary one. Of course over here when we see images of little Catholic school girls dressed in uniforms going to school and being spat upon by adults, it makes it seem totally related to religion. Frankly I don't know how much hatred must be in a person to debase themselves to the point of doing such a thing.
I'd be fighting among my own people if I saw them doing such a despicable thing to little girls.
Attacking school children walking to school is despicable. But not as despicable as telling a child they must be educated separately from children of other faiths and cultures. As long as government plays along with religious apartheid, the province has no hope of peace.
As long as housing providers maintain ghettoes, and politicians enforce those ghettoes with giant physical barriers and fences then there is no hope of peace. Sadly, politicians on both sides seem happy to maintain the status quo for their own narrow advantage.
Where are the leaders with a vision of a different future?
The poor economic performance of the south is big put off for unification. In say 20 years time when the South's economy is stable they will still see that the Celtic Tiger fell flat on its bum. Short term booms cannot be hidden. The south thought the Celtic Tiger was a permanent thing. We now know better.
Also, the south is still intolerant of non-Catholics. Their track record is poor. The Catholic church still has far too much influence in southern society, which is unacceptable to the northern protestants. Unification will not be in our lifetimes.
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