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IOWA
NEW HAMPSHIRE
NEW MEXICO
NEBRASKA
UTAH
SOUTH DAKOTA
NORTH DAKOTA
WYOMING
These are the only states you can honestly say have a low unemployment rate IMHO.
Would it be a good idea for a single male in their 30's, a high school grad with some college credits, and possessing really NO solid trade skills/experience or career credentials, to move to one of these states??
Here's the logic for the move:
- We are in a real bad recession.
- Cost of living relative to salaries/wages has absolutely SKYROCKETED in the last twenty years in the US.
- These states listed above have very low unemployment rates and most of 'em also have a low cost of living.
BOTTOM LINE: It shouldn't be too hard to "make it" in these states, right??
Now I would like some posters to play "devil's advocate" for me please. Tell me why this might actually be a bad idea, please.
Sorry I did not believe the "cross-posting" rule applied to my posts. It is the same question being asked about 8 very different states in the US.
Here's what I'm gonna do then.
I will ask this question in the Wyoming forum. I will hold my breath and wait so long as required until the thread is "closed". After my funeral and resurrection (God willing), I will post the question again in the North Dakota forum. Shampoo-Rinse-Repeat, shampoo-rinse-repeat for South Dakota, Utah, Nebraska, New Mexico, New Hampshire and Iowa.
Hopefully since I am also a cat and have nine lives this strategy might just work.
Oh wait a minute! I ABSOLUTELY NEED TO MOVE WITHIN 90 DAYS!!
OH WELL! CITY-DATA! NO ONE SAID IT WAS USER FRIENDLY OR ACCOMODATING!
Many of the states you list have relatively HIGH costs of living compared to incomes, especially if one does not have specialized skills that are in demand. Wyoming's economy is very dependent on the energy industry--when it's good, Wyoming does well; when it's not, Wyoming does poorly. For the past several years Wyoming has boomed. With natural gas prices in the tank now, things are getting a lot rougher. Wyoming went through a bust similar to what seems to be beginning now back in the early 1980's. Jobs evaporated, and people moved out of the state in droves. It took two decades for the Wyoming population to get back to what it was in 1982.
It can be especially difficult for an "outsider" to get a job in the western states you have listed during and economic downturn. They are small states with relatively small populations--there can be a strong preference for hiring "locals." Why? First, those individuals are often a known quantity to the employer, and, second, they are often perceived as more likely to stick with the job and not move on to a "green pasture" when times get better. Yes, the energy industry is an exception to this, but it is also highly cyclical with a lot of turnover. Finally, nearly all the states listed also have social, climatological, or geographical features that may make them very unattractive to people from elsewhere. It's not that any of the "features" are necessarily bad, just very different than what many people are used to. For example, North Dakota's brutal winters and lack of any large metro areas, Wyoming's oftentimes extremely windy environment and desolate landscapes, Utah's predominantly Mormon culture and population, New Mexico's heavily Hispanic population and cultural influences, Nebraska and Iowa's very agrarian atmosphere, etc.
"It's not very hard to make it in these states, right?" Wrong. In fact, the difficuly in making a consistently OK living in them is one reason that many of them have low populations. For years, the running joke in many of them was that their biggest export was their young people--because there simply was not enough jobs for them to be able to stay.
For example, North Dakota's brutal winters and lack of any large metro areas, Wyoming's oftentimes extremely windy environment and desolate landscapes, Utah's predominantly Mormon culture and population, New Mexico's heavily Hispanic population and cultural influences, Nebraska and Iowa's very agrarian atmosphere, etc.
Jazz, yep the content of your post did not come as a surprise.
Isn't it kind of true that these states have such low unemployment because anyone who didn't have a decent job/income/lifestyle situation there left the state long ago. Why hang around a harsh place like that if you can't even find decent paying work in addition to putting up with a lot of unattractive features of life there?
Bottom line though, Jazz, I gotta move somewhere. The rich, overcrowded fiscally-crumbling states are out if the question right now. They are TERRIBLE places to move to in a collapsing economy like this.
At least in these low unemployment states I could make a few hundred bucks a week and find a room or apartment for a few hundred bucks a month.
I would really appreciate input from other posters as well.
I mean, is it really the case that even these states with very low unemployment rates don't really have much work available?? I know it sounds cliche but what the da*n he/l happened to America??
I know there are nicer places with some jobs, but it takes 3 months pay to pay 1 month's bills in those places. I've ran and ran on that treadmill for too long now, I can't do it anymore.
Last edited by POhdNcrzy; 06-04-2009 at 05:29 PM..
Reason: "I could cry salty tears. Where have I been all these years? La la laaa laaah"
If I'm reading your resume correctly, you have limited education, limited job experience, no trade/tools, and no special interests in work/career/employment that you've pursued?
Essentially, you have three opportunities in Wyoming:
1) Getting hired at entry level in the "oil patch" or some other extractive industry job. These can pay fairly well ... even entry level is a $45K/year job. But you'll find that pay level in most of the boom towns in the industry won't go very far ... and, in some of the towns, you'll only be able to spend your money on housing and at the bar. Oh, and you must be able to pass a drug test to get hired.
2) Service/hospitality/food industry grunt worker. Low wages here, unless you can get hired in a slot working for tips in an upscale resort area. But there's definitely a shortage of food service workers in many of the towns in Wyoming that are catering to the tourist or extractive industries. Just being able to show up for work may be enough qualification to get hired in some places right now, but without experience ... don't count on waiting tables for big tips in a high dollar resort.
3) Casual day laborer. This market is overcrowded right now with many talented, capable, out-of-work folks who have credentials, college degrees, work/management experience, and trades skills and tools. The pay rate is low, and the only upside I see to this type of work is the possibility of a temp job leading to a permanent hire with a company.
Keep in mind that Wyoming, while low in unemployment percentage, is experiencing an increase in the unemployment rate. The news over the last few days was that a fair number of jobs were lost in the last month, and that means folks that are here already are out looking for jobs ahead of you. They've already got their places to stay and some identity in the area, which puts them well ahead of you for the available jobs.
Absent a reliable vehicle, a good paying job, and an affordable place to stay, you may find Wyoming a harsh financial environment to relocate to with the limited qualifications that you have.
There are about a half-dozen qualities that will assure that you probably can find work anywhere, no matter how crappy the economy may be--even where you are right now:
1) Honesty. This encompasses a lot of things--doing what is expected of you, following the rules, not stealing or cheating, keeping your word, and being able to be trusted. It's a quality sadly lacking in many workers today. One of the best compliments that I ever received from a boss was when he told me that, "No matter when or what, I know I can trust you. Period."
2) Common sense. I worked with some people with advanced degrees--even Ph.D.'s--who did not have a lick of common sense. I think this is one of those skills that one acquires early in life--either you have it or you don't. The successful managers and leaders are not always the ones with the highest degree from the fanciest university--they are the ones with good common sense and judgment. Places like Wyoming tend to breed people with a lot of good common horse-sense. In the sparsely populated West, it often was necessary for survival--I think it got wired into a lot of people's DNA from that.
3) Life-long learning. The only reason to stop learning is you are dead. The people who succeed are the ones who recognize that learning never stops. I'm constantly working at learning new things. If I don't know the answer, I go find it. People who are always learning new ways to solve problems usually never lack work.
4) Being motivated but not too greedy. Greed and motivation are like nuclear fission: Focused, well-controlled, constantly monitored, and moderated, it can be a very powerful and beneficial force. Allowed to run without discipline and control, it can be a dangerous destroyer. (As the economic debacle we are in now shows.)
5) Understanding that it is not what someone can do for you that matters, but what you can do for them. Oddly enough, I think about 9 out of 10 American workers haven't figured this out. Their first question of an employer is "What can you do for me?" Salary, benefits, pension. What they should be saying is "I know I can solve problems for you. What problems can I solve for you?"
Those philosophies have worked for me. I haven't really had to ask for a job for going on twenty years now. Prospective employers hunt me down. For several years, I held a very specialized and high-responsibility job--there were only about five dozen jobs identical to mine in the entire United States. I had one of them. Oh, by the way--my college degree: a bachelor's degree from a small liberal arts college.
A friend of mine who has hired and fired many people in a long career says it best, "Getting and keeping job is not so much a matter of where you are, but who you are as a person."
Isn't it kind of true that these states have such low unemployment because anyone who didn't have a decent job/income/lifestyle situation there left the state long ago. Why hang around a harsh place like that if you can't even find decent paying work in addition to putting up with a lot of unattractive features of life there?
Bottom line though, Jazz, I gotta move somewhere. The rich, overcrowded fiscally-crumbling states are out if the question right now. They are TERRIBLE places to move to in a collapsing economy like this.
At least in these low unemployment states I could make a few hundred bucks a week and find a room or apartment for a few hundred bucks a month.
I would really appreciate input from other posters as well.
I mean, is it really the case that even these states with very low unemployment rates don't really have much work available?? I know it sounds cliche but what the da*n he/l happened to America??
I know there are nicer places with some jobs, but it takes 3 months pay to pay 1 month's bills in those places. I've ran and ran on that treadmill for too long now, I can't do it anymore.
I don't know that I'd say that people moved away "long ago." I'd say that many young people move away after they've been to college, taken a degree in (insert name of major here) that has limited prospects in some of these states and they move away. Art history majors, for example, are going to find slim pickings in Wyoming. If you're a graduate in mining engineering, civil engineering -- you can just about write your ticket. Many of these states have very different economic bases than the coastal areas. The coasts typify the "new economy" ideal of service-based or "knowledge-based" economies and businesses. Well, in a debt deflation (or after a debt deflation) such as the one we're in, what matters most are "things you can hit with a stick" - real, tangible goods. Ag products, you can hit with a stick. Ag products aren't "discretionary spending." Oil, natural gas, coal, other mineral products - their use might fall off, but it doesn't stop. Coal, you can hit with a stick. Metals, like gold, silver, steel, etc - you can hit with a stick.
Services like dog walker? Hourly wage worker in leisure, travel, restaurant and retail industries like clothing and gadgets? Well, they're in a jam. In tight times, people quit using optional services or spending money without any tangible return (eg, gambling in Vegas is one such activity - and in Vegas, you have a city build on purely discretionary spending - a bad place to be in these times).
So in order to fit into the economies of these states, you'd better think about providing a service, skill or product that "you can hit with a stick." The trouble is, while there is work in many of these fields, it is cyclical with commodities. We're just coming out of a commodity price collapse, which caused many employers to freeze hiring. As commodity prices return to higher levels (and I mean all commodities, not just oil & gas), you'll see more jobs open up.
One of the most flexible backgrounds you can have is as a welder or mechanic, especially a diesel mechanic. There's also mining jobs available in these states for driving large trucks and operating equipment. The mines test everyone for drugs randomly, and you have to get MSHA training and testing.
BTW - The expenses in many smaller towns are rather high - especially when the price of fuel goes up. Oftentimes, you have to drive long distances for various products and services that are much more densely distributed in the US east of the Mississippi River. Here, if you need a particular medical specialist, you might be driving 120 to 150 miles - or more. If you have a foreign car, you might be driving the same sort of distance for parts. Sure, your rent or mortgage might be lower. Your power might be higher. Your fuel bill in the winter might be MUCH higher. Whatever sort of winter you're used to in Rhode Island ain't bupkiss compared to what you can see in ND, SD, MT, WY, northern ID, etc.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch anywhere, I'm afraid.
One of the most flexible backgrounds you can have is as a welder or mechanic, especially a diesel mechanic. There's also mining jobs available in these states for driving large trucks and operating equipment. The mines test everyone for drugs randomly, and you have to get MSHA training and testing.
snip .
True, but these are skilled trades.
One simply doesn't walk in and apply for these jobs without training and experience. For welders, certification is a requirement in the mines, with a higher level of skill than a basic welder from a basic vo-tech course. Most diesel mechanic jobs require owning your own tools and having training in the trade. Neither is a skill set that you can "fake" on the job and get by.
I don't see where the OP has such a background. What's more noticeable is a 30 something without a track record of continued employment at something ... the poster suggests a lot of job-hopping through the years without having acquired any particular skills ... especially of the ones that create "something you can hit with a stick".
Since I know several out-of-work certified welders here in Wyoming right now due to the current job cutbacks, I wouldn't say there's a lot of opportunity right now here for that. Diesel techs are hiring in some places, but you'd best be prepared with your affordable housing lined up, and an investment in hand tools of the trade.
Jazz, yep the content of your post did not come as a surprise.
Isn't it kind of true that these states have such low unemployment because anyone who didn't have a decent job/income/lifestyle situation there left the state long ago. Why hang around a harsh place like that if you can't even find decent paying work in addition to putting up with a lot of unattractive features of life there?
Bottom line though, Jazz, I gotta move somewhere. The rich, overcrowded fiscally-crumbling states are out if the question right now. They are TERRIBLE places to move to in a collapsing economy like this.
At least in these low unemployment states I could make a few hundred bucks a week and find a room or apartment for a few hundred bucks a month.
I would really appreciate input from other posters as well.
I mean, is it really the case that even these states with very low unemployment rates don't really have much work available?? I know it sounds cliche but what the da*n he/l happened to America??
I know there are nicer places with some jobs, but it takes 3 months pay to pay 1 month's bills in those places. I've ran and ran on that treadmill for too long now, I can't do it anymore.
Ignore the naysayers. There is always opportunity if you wish to work here. Consider a temp job. It can frequently lead to something permanent.
One rule on the job: NEVER say anything good about unions.
Ignore the naysayers. There is always opportunity if you wish to work here. Consider a temp job. It can frequently lead to something permanent.
One rule on the job: NEVER say anything good about unions.
Temp, like down at LaborReady? where the current pay rate is about $6.50/hr for general help?
That's going to go a long way toward survival here in Wyoming, right? and that's assuming you can get 40 hrs/week worth of work.
With the announced layoffs in the UWyo system today, there's yet another bunch of qualified workers that will be looking for jobs today on the streets in Wyoming. The announcement was made to the workers only yesterday that today would be their last day. The repercussions haven't filtered all the way through the system yet, either ... certain employees were told yesterday of the cutbacks to the U system, but others at the CC's are awaiting word as to their programs and funding.
Here in Cheyenne, we didn't see the "boomtown" economy of some of the mining and extractive industries in the state, and even so ... we're seeing the shrinking of jobs in several sectors right now. Retail, restaurants, service industry, travel agency closings, and so forth.
The Casper paper today didn't have a lot of jobs for folks that weren't trained professionals ... less than half of the jobs posted, and they totaled only a page and a half worth of ads. The Cheyenne paper had less than a page worth of job ads, again ... not seeking general help.
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